@Rojo1990 said
What 8 Y/O is having bottom surgery?
Just to be clear, transitioning care involves two components: pharmacological treatment and surgical treatment. In the US, almost all medical authorities advocate pharmacological treatment start no earlier than 8 years old. Surgically, no earlier than 17 years old.
Thus, no medical authority in the USA advocates surgical treatment for 8-year-olds.
@blablarg18 said
@Spintendo Shall I go on?
It was jaroonn who mentioned the "Wagner party", not me. Follow the thread more closely pls.
@raphjd I didn't ask you what "frequently" happens as far as minority and majority. I asked you for your opinion on whether 5% should dictate for the 95%. Do you feel that that's fair? I want to know your opinion, how you feel about it.
I believe that deep down inside you feel that there is a certain fairness which should apply to everyone. In your arguments you're constantly pointing to other examples saying "but see ... they're supposed to do it this way, and they don't ....see how screwed up it is?" That's one of your bedrock arguments.
Which leads me to believe that you feel there should ideally be a level playing field. In any other circumstance you would say that 5% dictating to the 95% is garbage. And you would be right. it's a shame you can't admit that in this case
@blablarg18 Ahhh the Lincoln project... they're the ones that brought down the twin towers on 9/11 right?
@raphjd your tangent on the inequities of Scottish serial-rapist law notwithstanding, do you still believe that the 5% should dictate what happens to the 95%?
@raphjd said
If an 8yo is completely competent enough to take puberty blockers and get bits chopped off without parental consent,
This is indicative of how you mix truth with fiction. Saying an 8-year-old can determine whether or not they take medication is not the same as an 8-year-old deciding they can have surgery .....which does not happen by the way. Point to one guideline established by anyone of your hated medical authorities that says surgery can and does happen before the age of 14.
@raphjd so to use your trans people-serial rapist comparison (since that comparison apparently comes easy to you) if I were to ask you at what age you believed serial rapists actually "became" serial rapists (as a defect in their minds) you would probably say by the ages of 12 or 13. The age when most people realize that hurting other people is wrong is about 8 to 10, if not way earlier. That seems to be the age when people start to form ideas of whether they identify as male or female, wouldn't you agree
@raphjd it's fascinating that as a point of comparison you use a trans person undergoing transitive care along with a serial rapist. You could have easily compared a person undergoing transitive care to somebody signing a complex legal document such as a contract (you even briefly mentioned it) but that wasn't the highlight of your comment, which was criminals conducting crimes. That is fascinating in and of itself.
I would agree with you that there is a preferable degree of rational thinking which comes along with having an adult brain as compared to having an adolescent one. Ideally we would allow people to make these decisions when they are adults, but puberty happens when it happens.....if puberty happened at age 30 then everyone would be starting trans care at 28. But unfortunately the body doesn't work that way. And I think 95% of people successfully undergoing trans care is a good reason to allow it to continue, regardless the mental age of the person choosing to receive that care.
@raphjd it's interesting that you don't have a number to give me.
Let's pick a really high number. let's say 25% detransition. Now would you agree that the reason for that de-transition would be important to know? Let's say of that 25% number, 40% de-transitioned for financial reasons. And let's say that 20% de-transition because they were pressured by a parent or caregiver, and another 20% because of adverse side effects from the medication. Now let's say the final 20% detransition because they realize that's not what they wanted. So our initial number of 25% upon examination showed that only 5% really changed their minds, with the others having their minds changed for them either because of a parent, financial, or side effect reasons.
So does that 5% justify stopping the other 95% from having these services? Does that seem fair having the minority choose for the majority?
@raphjd said people don't always stick with it. We have routinely see people detrans.
What does "routinely" mean ....can we see some numbers? What percentage would you say change their minds?
@raphjd said
why can't we force kids to wait until they are adults like we do with everything else?
Because the nature of trans care, which is prohibiting or lessening the appearances of male/female characteristics, is hugely affected by the changes that come during late adolescence. Being able to stop these changes before they've begun or solidified by adulthood means less medication having to be administered which is better for bodies undergoing these changes.
@raphjd I think that's already happened, when the Russian flagship Moskva was sunk last year. And I remember thinking how sad it was for those Russians who died, for something that they didn't deserve, thrust upon them by their president, a man who didn't care.
@MrMazda said There is a big difference between a surgery needed because you will die if you don't get it and an elective surgery that is done voluntarily, without any health complications if it does not get done and is irreversible.
For trans people, living in a body that does not align with how they feel in their minds is like a living death.
You have certainty that you are a male. now imagine having that same certainty but inside the body of a woman, how would you feel ? you would feel like that was a living death
@MrMazda said When it comes to trans kids, the trouble that I have is that many of them do not yet fully understand what it is that they want. They should at least be sure of what it is that they want, which usually doesn't happen until they are a bit older.
How many of those who have these types of treatments change their minds? do you think it's 50%? I would agree that that would be a large percentage.
But I think the actuality is closer to less than 1% who changed their minds. Does that 1% justify preventing the treatments for the other 99%?
an elective surgery that is done voluntarily, without any health complications if it does not get done and is irreversible.
This sounds a lot like circumcision. Would you agree that circumcisions should be decided on by the child receiving the circumcision, and not the parents?
@blablarg18
And why is someone who's lived in Mariposa county for over 45 years giving money to someone running for office in Ohio? And what about his donations to the Lincoln Project, a conservative, "never Trump" PAC?
@blablarg18 It seems the better argument to be made would be how the whole world wasted its energies focusing on the plight of five rich people being lost at sea while totally ignoring the plight of 700 poor people who died when their ship capsized off the coast of Greece.
@blablarg18 said
- USA detected sound just like an implosion
Titan found -DIRECTLY BELOW- location ie. debris sink straight down (like original Titanic).
Known location (floor below) was FIRST PLACE TO LOOK.
So they detected the implosion but didn't say anything until an ROV was sent down which spotted the debris on the floor, confirming the earlier implosion. Meanwhile other assets continued the above water visual/audio search until the debris was spotted. That seems like a pretty efficient use of time to me.
@blablarg18 Now that's more like it....The Intercept is a website we should be seeing a lot more links from... Good, solid reporting! Too bad most of their content is behind a paywall. But they're definitely a website people here should be reading a lot more often. As far as the FBI, all I can think of is "who watches the watchers?" It's good to see the intercept is doing its part
@raphjd said in
If you broadcast your shit to the world, then expect the world to respond.
Wouldn't your Methodist mother-in-law have something different to say about that world response? Those women's Twitter tirades certainly don't appear to follow the creed of "love one's neighbor as oneself".
