Gay men wanting equality, yet not giving it in return
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Gay men wanting equality, yet not giving it in return.
As an example, see the comments in this torrent - http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/details.php?id=13804
I've already said some in the comments on that torrent, but I shall say this. How can gay men expect equality when some gay men are just as discriminatory as straights? I find it really offensive that gay men, surely having their human rights violated throughout their lives, should have heterophobia? It's beyond belief, IMHO.
As a 100% gay man, I think EVERY sexuality should, as a right, be totally excepted and considered equal by society (as long as it does not harm others, I STRESS!)
A gay man showing disgust at hetero sex is not sending the equality message whatsoever. I'm certainly not disgusted by hetero sex. I wouldn't have even been born if it were not for hetero sex (and my mum is a mother in law due to me having a civil partnership with my b/f, and she loves it - she's a mum in law either way - she's a true modern thinker).
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are you not taking that particular comment a bit to far?
are you going to tell me that a straight guy…even if his friendly with gays..may feel a bit disgusted if he see two guys kissing? gay porn? gays talking about gay sex?
but based on your post..i'm taking as you want us to be better and above them right? now that is bit unrealistic...we are still just human...
but because i may say that hetero sex is disgusting...does not mean i do not see straight people as equals...one has nothing to do with the other..it does not mean i disrespect them...
but what is the issue...that its not okay for gays to dislike something from straights? why do we have to be above them or in other words nice..so they can accept us...as of today...most heteros won't and do not accept us...
so me personally...won't always be nice to those who do not...and yes i've heard all the discussions of this type of behavior...and it has not convinced me...sex its sex..but no i do not want to talk or hear about hetero sex..cause i do not like it..the same way if i talked freely about the things i do with a guy..most heteros won't like it either..
and NO i do not feel like be above or better than them in these subject...but i'm not taking it as serious as you..I don't want to see or discuss sex with chubby guys either...or scat...or...???? you know what i mean...
it these also an equality issue?
now i'm rambling..LOL...adios putos..
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To the vast majority of heteros, I'm nothing more than what I do with my cock. To most heteros, I'm not a human, I'm just a fag.
I see a bit of inequality here from the OP. We can't dislike something heteros do, while heteros are able to despise what we do.
EDIT: To quote GWB in a speech when he was running for his 2nd term "they aren't people, they are homosexuals". This was how he defended how he could be a christian and oppose equal rights.
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I've recently "Come out" to a large amount of my friends (individually and in privet). And to be honest i've been surprised how much they've supported me. I even get along better with some of them as they see the full me.
Even people who I thought would at the very least not talk to me again (As they have said things against gay people in my presence before they knew) have been supportive. Maybe its because they never expected someone they thought they knew closely would tell them they were gay? I got thanked by one of these people who told me that Ive opened there eyes and that he wished him and others were more open minded.
I suppose what im trying to say by this example is the stereotypes work both ways and are not the views of more people than we may think.
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(As they have said things against gay people in my presence before they knew)
See, another example of closed mindedness from heteros. They would have kept saying that kind of crap if you never told them.
I'm willing to bet that they still don't like gays overall. It's easy for them to accept you since they have known you for a while, but most likely their view of other gays hasn't changed in the least.
There was a study done about 2 years ago that showed that heteros when thinking about gays, focus on the sex, not the person.
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offtopic: @derektheking
your signature rulez!!!
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@tom:
offtopic: @derektheking
your signature rulez!!!
to continue that offtopic..
I wish i could do that just once..line up a few ppl and kick ass..LMAO…i do wish it was in color tho...but its still rulez.. ;D
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I think people are entitled to dislike what they wish. However, when a person sets out to disenfranchise or marginalize a group of people because they take part in activities to which he has an aversion then there's a problem.
Although straight people have every right to find gay sex disgusting - and it's probably not something that they can really help all that much in the first place - they can not - or at least should not - be able to threaten us with violence, kill us, harass us, deny us employment solely on the basis of our being gay without consideration of our qualifications. It'd be nice to have straight people find our characterizing activity pleasant or at least not unpleasant, but that's simply not something which we have any right to expect or to coax out of them.
Simply, this issue of disgust is neither here nor there as far as the matter of discrimination is concerned - save in the sense that disgust is the impetus of the discrimination.
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(As they have said things against gay people in my presence before they knew)
There was a study done about 2 years ago that showed that heteros when thinking about gays, focus on the sex, not the person.
Well I mean in reality Gays are thought to be…. a Guy or Girl that is wanting sex from the same kind of sex. That's all hetero think about because they don't think that Gays can love one another like Heteros can and that's totally wrong. I've been with my boyfriend for 2 years now and I have a love for him that I couldn't give to any other man.
I tried women before I met my boyfriend, but their was no love for the women. So my hetero life sucked terribly, because I was trying to give love, but couldn't because that's not who I was. But after I met my boyfriend, I found the love. And I'm not talking about the sex part, I'm meaning the true feeling of love. That feeling that makes you want to know everything about that person. The feeling that makes you want to be there for that person through everything. The feeling that makes you want only him in your life and no other man. That undescribeable feeling that you want to explain, but you can't because it's a powerful love.
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Equality is about a principle with exists beyond our own selves and into the future of others to come.
It is about establishing the law which allows all people the right to the same freedom within the context of a civil society. That legal framework also allows individuals the right to discriminate in private, as long as it causes no injury to another. (The right to hold a point of view.)Equality for gay people is not a matter of reward for good behaviour. Our oppression is not a punishment and our freedoms are not a present to be greatful for. They are hard fought long standing democratic gains in a deeply complex world, and the ideals of that freedom-fight stand above the everyday wrangles of daily life.
Gay people may well have to confront their own feelings & emotions of anger,rejection, denial and the such like. It will not be uncommon for some people to be phobic of one group when trying to organise the details of their own lives.
Life is complicated, sometimes women resent men, men resent each other, black resents white, gay resent trannie, lesbian resent bisexual - its part of how we get through things.
However you are right to identify & challenge hatred where ever you think it is being expressed. It is a contradiction - understanding why someone hates and then being generous in the way you intervene and help that person out of their anger and hatred.
You can't silcence hate, but you can negotiate with it and reason it down to something of integrity for both parties.It's quite a skill because it forces you to confront your own fears, and phobias. There is no point putting someone down for something ,you in reality, have felt and given expression to yourself at some point in your life.
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I agree with the guy who said you took it a bit too far.
It doesn't make a difference if gay people get grossed out by straight sex, the same way it doesn't make a difference if straight people are grossed out by gay sex. Just because we wouldn't do it doesn't mean we aren't ok with it. I have a ton of straight friends who have no problem with me being gay, but flinch if i ever mention any aspect of sex with another guy. Seriously, chill. -
I think straight sex is disgusting, but that doesn't mean I won't let them marry. People need to get over sex, and recognize the part involving romantic feelings which, very much, is a part of 'sexuality'.
It is surprising how narrow-minded people (straight, and probably gay too) are when it comes to homosexuality among men (two girls are OK by straight male standards). The first thing they think about when they see two guys walking on the street is gay sex. It's almost like an obsession I'd say. Most of the time I spent in the lower educational levels explaining homosexuality, is getting the sex overtone out of homosexuality. Really, in an association game anal sex is the first to make it on the blackboard - half of the time. If people understood that gay men are not ALL about doing it in the naughty place, perhaps the gay marriage issue would not be an issue to begin with. Proof: hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgDWAvLh0yo
(found that one via Nightcharm.com)What I find more worrying is more common discrimination (on race, gender, IQ, appearance, etc.) by gay men. For a people who have had to fight so hard for their rights, it is very bothersome to see some of my generation make unfortunate remarks of discrimination. We are SO not in the position to do that kind of shit.
Edit: live link disabled
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Gay men wanting equality, yet not giving it in return.
As an example, see the comments in this torrent - http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/details.php?id=13804
I've already said some in the comments on that torrent, but I shall say this. How can gay men expect equality when some gay men are just as discriminatory as straights? I find it really offensive that gay men, surely having their human rights violated throughout their lives, should have heterophobia? It's beyond belief, IMHO.
As a 100% gay man, I think EVERY sexuality should, as a right, be totally excepted and considered equal by society (as long as it does not harm others, I STRESS!)
A gay man showing disgust at hetero sex is not sending the equality message whatsoever. I'm certainly not disgusted by hetero sex. I wouldn't have even been born if it were not for hetero sex (and my mum is a mother in law due to me having a civil partnership with my b/f, and she loves it - she's a mum in law either way - she's a true modern thinker).
Are you fucking kidding?
You basically just posted about an issue that has never been solved and can be applied to the African American Agenda, the Mexican Immigrant Agenda, the Gays, Straights, the Transexuals, the Female Right Agenda…
if all of THOSE categories of people were discriminated against, why do they still talk shit about their oppressors?What pisses me off the most about your post is not that you are wrong, per se, but that you would dare to generalize the gay community by saying: " How can gay men expect equality when some gay men are just as discriminatory as straights" Now to defend you, you did say "some"... but on the same token... you say how can gay men, as in the whole community, expect equality when some... blah blah blah...
It seems you are trying to incite some sort of internal revolt... so what... we, the gay men who do not hate on straights, need to go and ostracize our gay brethren that do? That because of those gays that talk shit they are ruining our image?
You talk like the gay community is split into different sub groups... "The non straight-shit talking gays" and "the talking straight-shit gays".I know African American's that talk shit, about white people, to my face... I am white.
I know other African American's who have heard those same African American's that talked shit to my face, and have stood up and said "yo dude, chill out, why you talkin' shit like that? Do you know how ignorant you sound?"I know Lesbians that go to gay pride marches to protest "the man" and talk about how human males opress women and they should be put down like dogs...
I know other Lesbians that go to work in a coporation, with a suit, under a CEO and other various Managers and they smile and attend dinner parties and assimilate themselves their whole lives.My real point is this: you cannot go and make a statement like this post without thinking things through.
I am gay, I am a male, and I do not hate anyone.
I DO HATE straight sex, I hate seeing vagina and I am disgusted by it.
Straight people do not have to look at gay sex, and on the same token gay people DO NOT have to look at straight sex.
There is no bigotry or hatred or discrimination in this... it is just basic civil rights. -
Do you guys see homosexuality as another "minority category" or something different? What I mean is it fair to equate gays with, blacks, hispanic immigrants, in some case women in the workplace etc.(This is in America) or do you view it as another subset suchas republican, democrat, conservative, liberal?
I agree that the word gay is too easily defined by sexuality but I don't view hetero as strictly a sexual identifier. I see gay more as a description like skinny, cute, strong, nice.
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A skinny guy
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A cute guy
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A strong guy
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A nice guy
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A gay guy
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A skinny cute strong nice gay guy…lol!
I'm Bi so my view may be slightly skewed. That's why I am asking. Just curious.
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Homosexuality is a minority group in that, as a whole, we are discriminated against by laws and people.
As for the other minority groups, as a whole, they have plenty of laws {Affirmative Action, quotas, etc, etc} to protect them and give them special rights. When we lived in Houston, they had laws that required x amount of city contracts be given to the "good" minority groups, even though the contracts usually cost the city more than those given to white men. I remember one city contract that was given to a woman {to fill the quota} and it cost nearly 40% more than her nearest competitor.
Btw, as this is an international site, you can't always assume that everything is about the US.
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If there is anything I have learned over the years, there is no guarantee that a person who falls into a minority (of any kind) will be accepting of other minorities.
Many gay men and lesbians look down on bisexuals and transfolk (as do heterosexuals). Many gay/lesbian leatherfolk look down on non-leather BDSM, or refuse to accept a het or bi person as a leatherman/leatherwoman. A lot of BDSM folks look down on switches, or claim they don't exist (just like many claim that bisexuals don't exist). Many members of ethnic minorities look down on other ethnic minorities. Etc. etc.
The important thing is to call these idiots on their bullshit.
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Heteros already have total acceptance. Sorry I don't feel I owe them anything and I'm not saying that unkindly. But I won't go out of my way to be nasty to them - for example if I see 2 heteros kissing in public I will be neutral about even ignore them. But don't expect me to smile at them though if I feel cheeky I may say "Can I join in?"..haha
Equality is more a legal/political issue - well it effectively comes down to that. I don't think you can really give equality. But you can respect others regardless of their orientation. Your post is a little confusing.
