White Pride vs Black Pride
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"A common and seemingly reasonable argument for white pride or white nationalism is "why can't I be proud of my culture?"
Well, you can. Always have been able to. We have Irish pride celebrations, we have German drinking festivals, we have Serbian food festivals. Any European culture you can think of has multiple organizations in North America dedicated to taking pride in their heritage and NO ONE gives them shit for it.
But, you see, when you start talking "white pride", that's not a culture. That's a skin colour. There is no white culture, never was. There is no pan-European culture, never was. Europe is a continent, not a culture or ethnicity.
Now, some of you are probably about to go "But wait! Black pride! How is that okay?" Well, easy. Go find a black person and ask them if their ancestors were slaves. When you find one who says "yes", proceed to ask them "what country in Africa were your ancestors from?" Do you know what their answer will probably be? "I don't know." This is because their culture was taken from them. It was beaten out of them. They were enslaved, Christianized, and then white washed. The one unifying feature they have as a people is that history of slavery and that history of being black. They can't have Liberian pride, or Congolese pride, or "insert African country" pride because they have no fucking idea where their ancestors came from other than the broad region of West Africa.
Meanwhile white people can often trace our ancestors to specific cities and regions. I can trace my mother's maiden name to a single fucking village in Ireland. I know where I came from. I don't have white culture, I have Irish culture.
So that's why white pride makes you an asshole but black pride actually makes sense."This is from a reddit comment that puts my thoughts into words pretty well. I wonder what you guys think?
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So blacks who don't have a family history of being a slave are hate mongers if they claim black pride.
Slavery in Africa and the middle east existed long before white people got there and kept going even to this day despite it being illegal in white countries.
Africans played an active part in the slave trade.
There were black slave owners in North America and Europe.
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"A common and seemingly reasonable argument for white pride or white nationalism is "why can't I be proud of my culture?"
Well, you can. Always have been able to. We have Irish pride celebrations, we have German drinking festivals, we have Serbian food festivals. Any European culture you can think of has multiple organizations in North America dedicated to taking pride in their heritage and NO ONE gives them shit for it.
But, you see, when you start talking "white pride", that's not a culture. That's a skin colour. There is no white culture, never was. There is no pan-European culture, never was. Europe is a continent, not a culture or ethnicity.
Now, some of you are probably about to go "But wait! Black pride! How is that okay?" Well, easy. Go find a black person and ask them if their ancestors were slaves. When you find one who says "yes", proceed to ask them "what country in Africa were your ancestors from?" Do you know what their answer will probably be? "I don't know." This is because their culture was taken from them. It was beaten out of them. They were enslaved, Christianized, and then white washed. The one unifying feature they have as a people is that history of slavery and that history of being black. They can't have Liberian pride, or Congolese pride, or "insert African country" pride because they have no fucking idea where their ancestors came from other than the broad region of West Africa.
Meanwhile white people can often trace our ancestors to specific cities and regions. I can trace my mother's maiden name to a single fucking village in Ireland. I know where I came from. I don't have white culture, I have Irish culture.
So that's why white pride makes you an asshole but black pride actually makes sense."This is from a reddit comment that puts my thoughts into words pretty well. I wonder what you guys think?
You are correct, of course. There are numerous cultural festivals and holidays celebrating European nationalities in North America. "White pride" in the USA is the like "straight pride." It is meant to be antagonistic and exclusive rather than positive and uplifting.
African slaves were banned from using their native tongues or practicing their traditional religions. Despite the oppressive lash of slavery, somehow they were able to develop a unique culture with African, European, and Native American elements. In the mid 20th century "pride" became a rallying call for the Civil Rights movement as African Americans attempted to shed racial shame and embrace their heritage.
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So blacks who don't have a family history of being a slave are hate mongers if they claim black pride.
Slavery in Africa and the middle east existed long before white people got there and kept going even to this day despite it being illegal in white countries.
Africans played an active part in the slave trade.
There were black slave owners in North America and Europe.
I'm talking about black pride in America. Black people who came from africa as slaves to America which is most black people in the USA.
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I never thought of it that way.
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So blacks who don't have a family history of being a slave are hate mongers if they claim black pride.
Slavery in Africa and the middle east existed long before white people got there and kept going even to this day despite it being illegal in white countries.
Africans played an active part in the slave trade.
There were black slave owners in North America and Europe.
I'm talking about black pride in America. Black people who came from africa as slaves to America which is most black people in the USA.
Umm, there were black slave owners in the US. The earliest recorded black slave owners in now what is the US dates back to 1654, though historians say they existed before that. According to the US Census of 1830, there were 3,775 black slave owners. The slave owners were black.
Anthony Johnson, a former indentured servant, was among the very first slave owners in what is now the US. He fought in court to retain ownership of his indentured servants when their servitude ended and won.
Native Americans owned African slaves, as well.
So slavery wasn't a white only thing.
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You are correct, of course. There are numerous cultural festivals and holidays celebrating European nationalities in North America. "White pride" in the USA is the like "straight pride." It is meant to be antagonistic and exclusive rather than positive and uplifting.
African slaves were banned from using their native tongues or practicing their traditional religions. Despite the oppressive lash of slavery, somehow they were able to develop a unique culture with African, European, and Native American elements. In the mid 20th century "pride" became a rallying call for the Civil Rights movement as African Americans attempted to shed racial shame and embrace their heritage.
Black Pride is forcing whites to walk through creeks to get to class. It's also chanting about killing cops. It's demanding segregation be returned. Black Pride is also about black supremacy and white hatred.
White Pride isn't allowed because whites are supposed to be self-loathing or they are deemed evil.
Social media bans for racism, except racism directed at whites. Similar thing with sexism.
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You are correct, of course. There are numerous cultural festivals and holidays celebrating European nationalities in North America. "White pride" in the USA is the like "straight pride." It is meant to be antagonistic and exclusive rather than positive and uplifting.
African slaves were banned from using their native tongues or practicing their traditional religions. Despite the oppressive lash of slavery, somehow they were able to develop a unique culture with African, European, and Native American elements. In the mid 20th century "pride" became a rallying call for the Civil Rights movement as African Americans attempted to shed racial shame and embrace their heritage.
Black Pride is forcing whites to walk through creeks to get to class. It's also chanting about killing cops. It's demanding segregation be returned. Black Pride is also about black supremacy and white hatred.
White Pride isn't allowed because whites are supposed to be self-loathing or they are deemed evil.
Social media bans for racism, except racism directed at whites. Similar thing with sexism.
You're disgusting. Seriously. And the moment I can create an entire system based on slavery against you and then later a Jim Crow type system (backed up by some elements in law enforcement) to keep you from even the basic set of opportunities, tell you for hundreds of years that you are worth nothing while using that system to back me up, create a terrorist organization to keep people like you from voting for over a century, destroy anything you build (research Black Wall Street), and then commit a heinous hate crime in a church (Charleston Church Shooting of 2015) with supremacists raising money for my bail instead of condemning my actions then and only then can you even begin to say racism against whites exist. Until then, shove it. Seriously.
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I'm not an American but I honestly have a single question:
What is black culture in the US?
Don't get me wrong, I will support anyone who celebrates their culture, as soon as the culture exists.
But you yourself mentioned "black pride" in the sense of "pride of people that are born in the US and raised in the US" and as far as I know, since those people do not have any ancestor traces to a specific country or tribe or cultural group, they only have one culture themselves: American culture. So in that sense, black pride is not really a celebration of heritage, pretty much like white pride.To clarify it even more, I'm going to take as an example 4 imaginary people:
- Alan is a white man born and raised in the US. He cannot trace his ancestry and always considered themselves just an American. He has American Pride.
- Bella is a white woman born and raised in the US. Unlike Alan, she knows that her ancestry goes back to Italy, since her parents are Italians born and raised in Italy. Her family has Italian pride, and so does she. However, she has American pride too.
- Cory is a black man born and raised in the US. His grandparents however, came to the US from Congo. He knows his ancestry and this is why both him and his family have Congolese pride. He might also feel American pride.
- Dana is a black woman born and raised in the US. She is the case you mention, aka an African-American who cannot trace their ancestry to a specific country or tribe, since it goes back to slavery era. Since she cannot trace her ancestry, and does not have any cultural associations with anything from any tribe of black origin since both her and her parents were raised by the American standard, how come her "pride" is different than the pride that Alan has? Shouldn't her pride also be just American pride?
But here is the difference: Cultural prides, such as "Greek pride", "Irish pride", "Chinese pride" or "Hindi pride", all have to do with appreciating the "cultural particles" of your ancestral culture (that means the language, cuisine, history, art, music, dances, religion, clothes, etc). Black pride is not like that since black people cannot appreciate their respective cultural particles, since they don't know their ancestral culture. And you might say "but they are black, they are celebrating the cultural particles of black culture". NO. Seriously, that's pretty much racist since you consider all black people (including indigenous people of Africa) having THE SAME CULTURE. Which is far from the truth since there are hundreds, if not thousands, of different cultures, each one bonding onto a specific country, tribe, or cultural group. But if that's so, why is "Black Pride" still used as a term by black people themselves? This is because black people use it in the same way that gay people use the term "gay pride": they are not pride of the black culture. THEY ARE PROUD BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK. Black, as in skin color. So, in a sense, it is pretty much the black counterpart of White Pride; aka it's a type of RACIAL PRIDE. It is definitely different however, considering how brutal White Pride supporters have been to people of other races, but I will ask you one thing: how do you know that one day in the future, Black Pride supporters won't do the same acts towards whites as whites did back in the days?
TL;DR: Dichotomy between "cultural pride" and "racial pride"
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You're disgusting. Seriously. And the moment I can create an entire system based on slavery against you and then later a Jim Crow type system (backed up by some elements in law enforcement) to keep you from even the basic set of opportunities, tell you for hundreds of years that you are worth nothing while using that system to back me up, create a terrorist organization to keep people like you from voting for over a century, destroy anything you build (research Black Wall Street), and then commit a heinous hate crime in a church (Charleston Church Shooting of 2015) with supremacists raising money for my bail instead of condemning my actions then and only then can you even begin to say racism against whites exist. Until then, shove it. Seriously.
Another black who denies racism against whites exists. Who'd'a thunk it.
And he calls me disgusting. :blink:
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I'm not an American but I honestly have a single question:
What is black culture in the US?
Don't get me wrong, I will support anyone who celebrates their culture, as soon as the culture exists.
But you yourself mentioned "black pride" in the sense of "pride of people that are born in the US and raised in the US" and as far as I know, since those people do not have any ancestor traces to a specific country or tribe or cultural group, they only have one culture themselves: American culture. So in that sense, black pride is not really a celebration of heritage, pretty much like white pride.To clarify it even more, I'm going to take as an example 4 imaginary people:
- Alan is a white man born and raised in the US. He cannot trace his ancestry and always considered themselves just an American. He has American Pride.
- Bella is a white woman born and raised in the US. Unlike Alan, she knows that her ancestry goes back to Italy, since her parents are Italians born and raised in Italy. Her family has Italian pride, and so does she. However, she has American pride too.
- Cory is a black man born and raised in the US. His grandparents however, came to the US from Congo. He knows his ancestry and this is why both him and his family have Congolese pride. He might also feel American pride.
- Dana is a black woman born and raised in the US. She is the case you mention, aka an African-American who cannot trace their ancestry to a specific country or tribe, since it goes back to slavery era. Since she cannot trace her ancestry, and does not have any cultural associations with anything from any tribe of black origin since both her and her parents were raised by the American standard, how come her "pride" is different than the pride that Alan has? Shouldn't her pride also be just American pride?
But here is the difference: Cultural prides, such as "Greek pride", "Irish pride", "Chinese pride" or "Hindi pride", all have to do with appreciating the "cultural particles" of your ancestral culture (that means the language, cuisine, history, art, music, dances, religion, clothes, etc). Black pride is not like that since black people cannot appreciate their respective cultural particles, since they don't know their ancestral culture. And you might say "but they are black, they are celebrating the cultural particles of black culture". NO. Seriously, that's pretty much racist since you consider all black people (including indigenous people of Africa) having THE SAME CULTURE. Which is far from the truth since there are hundreds, if not thousands, of different cultures, each one bonding onto a specific country, tribe, or cultural group. But if that's so, why is "Black Pride" still used as a term by black people themselves? This is because black people use it in the same way that gay people use the term "gay pride": they are not pride of the black culture. THEY ARE PROUD BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK. Black, as in skin color. So, in a sense, it is pretty much the black counterpart of White Pride; aka it's a type of RACIAL PRIDE. It is definitely different however, considering how brutal White Pride supporters have been to people of other races, but I will ask you one thing: how do you know that one day in the future, Black Pride supporters won't do the same acts towards whites as whites did back in the days?
TL;DR: Dichotomy between "cultural pride" and "racial pride"
Black pride in the US is cultural pride because or culture is one WE DEFINED since our original cultures were erased from us. It is a culmination of the experience (slavery, accomplishments, setbacks caused by our own people, celebrations, movements, and much more) of being black in America. It's not just being proud in black as in our skin color (that has more to do with colorism and trying to end that), it is more about OUR experience and how complicated and unique it is. It's funny how you say we should just say "American pride" because I will never forget when I first transferred to the University of South Carolina in one of my history classes we were discussing slavery and the Jim Crow era and how it directly correlates to the problems of today, and white students complained saying why did they have to sit through that since it was an American history class and we should be learning about American history. That's the problem with saying simply have "American pride," you're unknowingly erasing our identity in that because many in this country do not think of black people when they think of America. I am proud to be an American, and I am proud to be black. Those are not synonymous.
Also, things would drastically (very drastically) have to change for us to even have the power structure to do such a thing to white people. Beyond that we'd have to collectively believe that white people are inferior to us and I know I do not have that belief nor does anyone I know whether it be friends or family members. Name a time or situation where millions of blacks came together to make an attempt to disenfranchise white people, mass murder white people through state-sponsored lynchings, deny white people basic rights or deny white people opportunities to lower their chances of being successful economically, socially, or even mentally in America's history. You cannot include slave rebellions for obvious reasons, but name a time in America's history where any of that has happened. If you cannot name any factual instances then why should I take your concern of, "how do you know that one day in the future, Black Pride supporters won't do the same acts towards whites as whites did back in the days," seriously? History often repeats itself; therefore, since there are no known instances in history of any of the things I listed happening to white people on such a large scale that it caused very real effects in how white people in America live today, then I'm sure you could agree a history that never existed cannot repeat itself.
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raphgd did you even read what you're quoting?
I can't believe in 2017 that Black Americans are still having to listen to this. I've never even met a Black American but I know many elements of their culture that are worthy of celebration, especially sporting achievements.
I'm blonde, blue eyed, over 6ft tall, abv avg fitness and intelligence, I don't even wear glasses - the perfect Aryan, Hitler and the Nazi party would have poped white pride boners over me. White Pride is celebrating a perceived genetic superiority marked by skin colour, which is crazy stupid Nazi Hitler stuff.
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You're disgusting. Seriously. And the moment I can create an entire system based on slavery against you and then later a Jim Crow type system (backed up by some elements in law enforcement) to keep you from even the basic set of opportunities, tell you for hundreds of years that you are worth nothing while using that system to back me up, create a terrorist organization to keep people like you from voting for over a century, destroy anything you build (research Black Wall Street), and then commit a heinous hate crime in a church (Charleston Church Shooting of 2015) with supremacists raising money for my bail instead of condemning my actions then and only then can you even begin to say racism against whites exist. Until then, shove it. Seriously.
Another black who denies racism against whites exists. Who'd'a thunk it.
And he calls me disgusting. :blink:
I called you disgusting for the very reason why you ignored what I wrote and just simply ran with "Another black who denies racism against whites exists." You are disgusting because everything in my statement is fact based. Where are your facts? Show me the effects of a system designed for and created by black people in America that has been used to oppress white people in the way white people oppressed black people. Show me the evidence that said system continues to deny white people basic rights and opportunities today. I could have all the white prejudice in my mind (which I don't) and it will mean absolutely nothing at the end of the day because if I act on it there would be real consequences. Simply put, you're disgusting.
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I don't think there's inherently anything wrong with having "white pride" however 99% of the time the term seems to be used as nothing more than a cover for racism. I suppose I have a degree of pride in my European-American heritage for example, in that Americans of European descent have created and achieved many great things, but I wouldn't call it "white pride" due to the association with white supremacists, who I want nothing to do with.
My hope is that a century or so down the road, people will have mixed into one world race, and the whole stupid unscientific concept of race will die out entirely.
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raphgd did you even read what you're quoting?
I can't believe in 2017 that Black Americans are still having to listen to this. I've never even met a Black American but I know many elements of their culture that are worthy of celebration, especially sporting achievements.
I'm blonde, blue eyed, over 6ft tall, abv avg fitness and intelligence, I don't even wear glasses - the perfect Aryan, Hitler and the Nazi party would have poped white pride boners over me. White Pride is celebrating a perceived genetic superiority marked by skin colour, which is crazy stupid Nazi Hitler stuff.
YES, you are completely right. White people are all racists and there is nothing good about being white.
Everyone else has a right to celebrate their skin color, but "whiteness" is just evil.
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I don't think there's inherently anything wrong with having "white pride" however 99% of the time the term seems to be used as nothing more than a cover for racism. I suppose I have a degree of pride in my European-American heritage for example, in that Americans of European descent have created and achieved many great things, but I wouldn't call it "white pride" due to the association with white supremacists, who I want nothing to do with.
My hope is that a century or so down the road, people will have mixed into one world race, and the whole stupid unscientific concept of race will die out entirely.
The problem is that any white pride is classed as racism, so most whites don't show any because they don't want to be viewed as racists. Hell, in many cases, whites not being self-loathing is classed as racism.
Just like in the UK, the English are prevented from showing English pride, while you can show virtually any other pride you want (excluding white pride, obviously). Celebrating St George's Day is deemed as racist, but celebrating the patron Saints of the other bits of the UK is fully encouraged and tax payer funded.
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I called you disgusting for the very reason why you ignored what I wrote and just simply ran with "Another black who denies racism against whites exists." You are disgusting because everything in my statement is fact based. Where are your facts? Show me the effects of a system designed for and created by black people in America that has been used to oppress white people in the way white people oppressed black people. Show me the evidence that said system continues to deny white people basic rights and opportunities today. I could have all the white prejudice in my mind (which I don't) and it will mean absolutely nothing at the end of the day because if I act on it there would be real consequences. Simply put, you're disgusting.
I'm "disgusting" because I don't agree with your SJW dictionary fallacy world view. You change the definition of words to suit you. Do I get to change the definition of words I don't like as well or is it racist for whites to do it?
How are you oppressed with 50 years of Affirmative Action (and quotas for many of those years) where you get to have lower SAT scores than I do to get into college? You get extra points on the civil service tests and you get a racial benefit when it comes to military promotions.
Don't bitch about Jim Crow, when your fellow blacks are screaming to bring it back.
Don't scream about racism when your fellow blacks are forcing whites to walk through creeks to get to class.
Don't scream about racism when, as above, black people get away with treating whites in a way that whites can't treat blacks without being arrested and it making world news headlines.
Don't scream about racism when blacks can tell a US Senator who is running for President to "shut the fuck up" as they did to Bernie Sanders after they bum-rushed the stage to hijack his campaign event.
Don't scream about racism when blacks shouted "whites to the back" at a political rally, when we know that everyone would lose their minds if the races were reversed.
Blacks get to do all kinds of racist shit with impunity because if they get called on it, they scream racism.
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well it didn't take long for this to get thoroughly and unambiguously racist…...
but oh....wait, wait, any time anyone wants to talk about "white pride", all they do is spend an inordinate amount of time bitching about black people and really barely talking about what's so great about being white.....which is why white nationalism is racism....shit, how could i have forgotten....
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well it didn't take long for this to get thoroughly and unambiguously racist…...
but oh....wait, wait, any time anyone wants to talk about "white pride", all they do is spend an inordinate amount of time bitching about black people and really barely talking about what's so great about being white.....which is why white nationalism is racism....shit, how could i have forgotten....
So, you think that black pride is good, but white pride is evil. Gotcha.
Now tell us how you support equality.
PS: You reported me to me for being racist, for one of my earlier posts. If talking about things that blacks have done is racist, then wouldn't it be racist to talk about when whites have done? Do you not see how hypocritical you are being?
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I called you disgusting for the very reason why you ignored what I wrote and just simply ran with "Another black who denies racism against whites exists." You are disgusting because everything in my statement is fact based. Where are your facts? Show me the effects of a system designed for and created by black people in America that has been used to oppress white people in the way white people oppressed black people. Show me the evidence that said system continues to deny white people basic rights and opportunities today. I could have all the white prejudice in my mind (which I don't) and it will mean absolutely nothing at the end of the day because if I act on it there would be real consequences. Simply put, you're disgusting.
I'm "disgusting" because I don't agree with your SJW dictionary fallacy world view. You change the definition of words to suit you. Do I get to change the definition of words I don't like as well or is it racist for whites to do it?
How are you oppressed with 50 years of Affirmative Action (and quotas for many of those years) where you get to have lower SAT scores than I do to get into college? You get extra points on the civil service tests and you get a racial benefit when it comes to military promotions.
Don't bitch about Jim Crow, when your fellow blacks are screaming to bring it back.
Don't scream about racism when your fellow blacks are forcing whites to walk through creeks to get to class.
Don't scream about racism when, as above, black people get away with treating whites in a way that whites can't treat blacks without being arrested and it making world news headlines.
Don't scream about racism when blacks can tell a US Senator who is running for President to "shut the fuck up" as they did to Bernie Sanders after they bum-rushed the stage to hijack his campaign event.
Don't scream about racism when blacks shouted "whites to the back" at a political rally, when we know that everyone would lose their minds if the races were reversed.
Blacks get to do all kinds of racist shit with impunity because if they get called on it, they scream racism.
My SAT combined verbal and math score was 1540 in Spring 2007 and 1580 in Fall 2007 and my GPA was a 3.9 (not a 4.0+, I know). I was first accepted into Clemson University but later transferred to the University of South Carolina, later graduating from there magna cum laude in 2012. You're right, I probably did benefit from affirmative action because many of my white friends from high school got into both Clemson and UofSC with way lower SAT scores and GPAs than I had and although I had at least four black friends who had SAT scores and GPAs either similar or greater than mine, they were denied acceptance into either of those schools. Myself and one other black student that I barely knew were the only two blacks from our high school graduating class to get into Clemson or UofSC that year while nearly 20 of our white counterparts got in. Only 3 of those white students graduated with honors–-they put the asterisk beside your name in the graduation booklet if you graduate with honors---from our high school like me and the other black student, meaning the others got into the universities with less academic performance and lower SAT scores than me or the other black student. Like I said, I was friends with some of those white students and knew they had SAT scores much lower than mine.
I limited myself going to both the universities because I could've gone outside of the state with as many MERIT-BASED scholarships and grants that I had, but I chose those schools because I'm not only proud to be black but I'm also proud to be an American from the South and proud to be a South Carolinian, no matter what racial barriers I've had to face in my life. Nothing will change the pride I have for my country or for the state I was born and raised in by my parents. I love this country and I am grateful for the educational opportunities I received; however, I am conscious to the fact that millions are denied those opportunities and had it not been for affirmative action, another white student with a lower SAT score and GPA than mine would've been accepted over me and the one other black student.
I have the right to criticize FACTUAL RACISM and call for an end to it. However, I refuse to further reply to someone irrational and in denial of historical and current facts.
