I don't think making gay marriage legal should be so important to us
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I think what is important is to make the laws such that there is no discrimination of people in gay relationships in such things as taxes. The name marriage itself doesn't seem an important thing to fight for IMHO
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Yes, the word is important because it is about marriage equality not being semi-respected by the government. That said, equality in employment, housing, etc. are more pertinent than marriage equality but I think activists and concerned citizens can walk and chew gum at the same time.
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I think you're right that the fundamental issue should be equality. The question is how do we get there? I don't think we can arrive at equality without our families being seen as the same–using a different word than marriage may seem like a minor thing, but can only get in the way of being equal.
That being said, I think it would be fine if they wanted to expand civil partnerships to straight couples, too.
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Now what would you call these gay relationships? The reason people are fight for gay marriage isn't just to be able to use the word marriage. It is for all the protection that comes along with the government recognizing that two people are "married". The tax benefits, the survivorship benefits, the right to decide. The list is endless. In has already been proven that creating a second class of "so-called" marriage doesn't work because they don't bestow upon this class the same rights as the "married" class. The legal system and laws are set up to only recognize "Married".
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As we saw in the UK and many other countries, these non "marriage" gay relationships were never equal to hetero marriage.
Despite what people seem to believe, the UK government officially said that Civil Partnerships were "somewhat similar to marriage" when it came to rights and whatnot. Tony Blair, the then Prime Minister, said that civil partnerships were "separate but equal" from hetero marriage. If you don't know what Jim Crow laws are, then look it up. Basically they are laws that said whites and blacks were separate but equal, which is why they had difference drinking fountains for each race, and so on.
Hell, even with gay marriage now being legal, all references to love and sex have been removed from gay marriage, while still being an official part of hetero marriage.
"Marriage" is often claimed by the religious. However, "marriage" has belonged to the state for over 4,000 years.
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it all boils down to the right of having the same rights as everybody
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The right should be there but I think it's mostly a farce anyway, with so many failed marriages, why would we want to follow down that same path!?
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While "gay marriage" may not be the most important part of our battle for equality, it's been the biggest catalyst. I never imagined in my lifetime I would see such strides and acceptance. We're not there yet, but we're getting there. The best part is seeing kids and teenagers come out with more support and acceptance than even 5-10 years ago.
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Imagine laying your husband dying in your deathbed. The doctors came in and ask you if your a relative. and you say you are his partner. You do not have fundamental rights because first and foremost if your are not LEAGALLY MARRIED. you have no rights to hospital visit.
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The most important thing I see is the right to your own kids that comes from marriage.
If the biological parent dies, the states can take away your kid and won't even allow you to apply for adoption to get your own kid back because you aren't married and some states don't allow gays to adopt.
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Straight marriage is a borderline joke. I mean, most of them are based on convenience, money, family pressure, etc. And there's the 50%+ divorce rate. What grinds my gears is the length some straight people go through to "protect" marriage. There's nothing to protect, it's a joke. Sometimes it seems like a fantasy, like Santa Claus but for adults.
But when gay people aren't given the right and the chance at it, it's insulting to them. Am I the only one who thinks like this?
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I think is a huge enough thing like a lot of comments shows about legal stuff and recognition…
In my country it been legal for 10 years, i'm not from a generation who have had to fight for that or use to think on it (i'm 25), but i think not coca cola have right now an advertising about families with adopted children with a couple of fathers in it, if gay marriage was not legal and accepted by the society. I think the idea of family is changing, growing and evolving for all the society and that is one of the steps to do for start it.
All my best wishes and support with you all are fighting for our rights. -
Marriage in any form is not great for everyone. There are pros and cons.. The fact that gay marriage isn't legal is the exact same as white not being able to marry black. We are all human….
My partner and I will have to pay a lot more taxes when we get married - If Texas gets with the program.
But when he coded on the operating table at Baylor - I was worried they hospital would treat me like I was his "person". They did the exact opposite. They are holding my hand and took me to see him. He's fine btw...
For our on peace of mind... I want to make sure that he is making life or death decisions for me if it comes to that.. NOT MY MOTHER!!! We need to be able to take care of ourselves... we don't have the benefit of dumping our old age on our kids!!
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I agree with this 100% - the key issue is no discrimination, by forcing people to accept things and redefine terminology, we're only preventing the former from happening.
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Interesting points of view in this thread. Not all gays support gay marriage. I think there is a political agenda at work.
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I agree with this 100% - the key issue is no discrimination, by forcing people to accept things and redefine terminology, we're only preventing the former from happening.
It's basically the same fight that happened in the US during the 1950s thru to late 1960s with interracial marriage.
In both the interracial marriage and gay marriage fight, the Supreme Court forced it on the minority that was against it.
In the west, governments force people to "accept" others all the time.
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More like making laws able to prosecute hate crimes …
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You're saying that you want a separate-but-equal status (like what African Americans had in the United States before the 1960s), and that's naive of you to think it's remotely workable.
Like it or not, there are real legal rights and statuses tied to having a legal document proving a certain person is your spouse … taxes, critical health situations and power to make decisions in those situations, ownership of property, guardianship of minors, blah blah blah ... so much is deeply rooted in having that legal status of being "married" to a person.
Sure, it would be TECHNICALLY POSSIBLE to run down a checklist of all 1,001 laws on the books that marriage affects and "correct" them individually (each one of which would be a congressional battle in its own right, and be a nasty clusterfuck, but I guess it could be done) to essentially give us the same rights with our partners that a straight married couple has right out of the box with a brand new, $15 marriage certificate ... you could do it.
Why, though? The quickest route is just to say LET GAYS GET MARRIED. It's less complicated, and it also means an important cultural victory for us. It fixes all 1,001 laws of those little issues in one fell swoop, and ensures that the particularly uptight people in the societies in which we live are forced to adjust to a mainstreaming of us. It basically means that a homophobe's grandchildren are going to understand, a few decades from now, that we are a part of humanity and a certain ratio of gays, lesbians, gender-swapped, yadda yadda individuals in the general population is a NORMAL THING.
...you wouldn't achieve that cultural victory without fighting for the word. The word is important. I want the WORD "marriage." Fuck not getting it. Yes, it's important.
.... at any rate, at least in the United States, this argument is moot and would've been more appropriate a year ago. All other developed nations will fall in line soon. We have the word; the issue is getting close to being over.
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Imagine laying your husband dying in your deathbed. The doctors came in and ask you if your a relative. and you say you are his partner. You do not have fundamental rights because first and foremost if your are not LEAGALLY MARRIED. you have no rights to hospital visit.
this argument is null and void in Australia where a Civil Union gives you the same spousal family rights as a married person
in areas such as visitation etc.
i cant speak on behalf of other nations though -
agree
