First Trans Lutheran Bishop
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I was raised Lutheran, so why not make note of this event:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/12/us/first-transgender-lutheran-bishop-megan-rohrer-trnd/index.html
Curious if any Lutherans (born or current) are reading this Religion & Philosophy board?
Traffic here v-e-r-y s-l-o-w since the redesign, I'm afraid.
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@flozen Interesting news; I had missed that. (I'm Anglican Church of Canada/Episcopal Church, depending on which country I'm in.) The Episcopal Church is very inclusive of LGBT people, whether as members or in leadership. ACC has been on a slower timetable, but is still ahead of many other national bodies within the Anglican Communion.
And yes, the forums are a dreadful slog right now...I'm sure the "posts per day" metrics have fallen off drastically. I hope these are birth pangs and not a "new normal." I'm not sure why there was a change; things seemed fine before. But I digress.
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@eobox91103 Oh, but let's digress a little more, Brother!
I have quietly noted (with agreement) your remarks about the connection between the Forum redesign and the drying up of nearly all Boards. The only ones that have actually thrived are the "Who Is This" type of endless porn Requests, and P&D.
I'm afraid enough time has passed to consider this the "new normal." So I have very little left to contribute -- I'm not going to take the time to develop longer, thoughtful replies for boards where it might garner 20 views in a week.
Unless some of the "visibility ideas" you proposed are implemented, these boards are well into a death spiral, I fear. And the topics that will remain active are those supporting the porn torrents. It was nice while it lasted.
To return to something of a religious nature, I have many Episcopal friends here in NYC and they are indeed proud of the inclusivity.
On the contrary, my family belonged to the Lutheran Church (in America's) Missouri Synod -- the most conservative, you will not see trans bishops or pastors at the pulpit anytime soon!
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@flozen My roommate while an undergraduate came from a long line of Lutheran pastors (and he's one now), and I kept track of the ELCA/MS re-arrangement sometime back. It's not unlike more conservative Anglican groups splitting off from their national church, but claiming to be still Anglicans because they've put themselves under the jurisdiction of a homophobic bishop in Nigeria or some such place.
I think the ELCA and the Episcopal Church in the US have a "full intercommunion" agreement, or some such thing. I remember visiting an Episcopal parish in Connecticut several years ago whose (interim) rector/pastor was an ordained Lutheran. I've heard Episcopal writers speak of their church "pitching a big tent" (giggle, giggle) where a diversity of viewpoints is accepted. There are those who insist, though, that (a) they are right, and (b) everyone else needs to agree with them or they're wrong. (This attitude is not confined to religion.) If I were a bible-thumper, I would mention Mark 9:38, but I'm not, so I won't.
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@eobox91103 Well, your Lutheran tidbits got me motivated to see where the Evangelical branch of the Lutheran church (and their trans bishop) stood on issues compared to the Missouri Synod.
Despite the initial scariness of the word evangelical, this group deserves kudos for the progressive position they have staked out:
https://theydiffer.com/difference-between-missouri-synod-and-elca/
The comparison chart of Missouri turned my tummy -- they are practically in line with the fundies in Baptist and similar retrograde orbits.
Is your pastor friend hot and available? Not that -- as an atheist -- I have a clergy thing, of course.
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@flozen Thanks for providing that link. While it's difficult to summarise a denomination's teaching in few Twitter-esque boxes, that chart does a fairly good job. It's ironic that the items in the Missouri Synod column line up quite closely with those of the Roman Catholic Church--given that the origins of the Lutheran movement were a reformation/rebellion against Rome. The Church of England's teachings were originally virtually identical to those of Rome (except for the role of the Pope), and now the descendants of the C of E in North America are quite similar to the ELCA. (Henry VIII did not like that "L word.")
I agree that the term "evangelical" has a frightening dimension to it, because it's been co-opted by right-wing groups very intolerant of anyone outside their white middle/upper-middle class bubble. (I call their mega-churches "Jesus factories.") The "E" in ELCA is rooted in the word's original meaning (from the Greek euangelion or "good news," the origin of the English word "gospel."). It's good that they haven't abandoned the word just because it has been corrupted by others.
My pastor friend is quite straight (there really are such people), and happily married. I'm not sure I'd say he was "hot" from a homoerotic perspective, but he's a super nice guy, which is perhaps the ultimate in hotness.
You identified yourself as an atheist; I would call myself a non-theist, meaning that I don't address the question of the existence of a God because, in brief, the question isn't important to me. I see that as slightly different from being agnostic, but that's a dissertation for another time. My family has generations of anchoring in the Anglican tradition, and I'm comfortable with being part of a community of tradition, culture, inclusion, and social action. I remember hearing a priest in the (US) Episcopal church saying that his denomination was founded on the twin pillars of "the gospel and good taste." One out of two isn't bad. (That's probably less precise than another speaker who said that the church was based on scripture, tradition, and reason, forming a three-legged stool. She used the word "stool" over and over again, which became somewhat distracting.) But, as is often the case, I digress.
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@eobox91103 Occasionally my brain is incapacitated, and at this moment I'm whiffing on the method to engage you via sending on Messages. Could you send a "test" over, as I know it will allow for a reply.
And as a very brief and tangential return to topic, there's a unique Lutheran church in Midtown NYC you must see on you next visit. The church owned the mega-desirable plot of land, and sold it to Citibank for a gleaming tower, with the stipulation it could construct a church in the basement. The architects did a great job with skylights that allow you to peer down or up, as the case might be.
Though we probably reeked of "visitor," the congregation was not welcoming or friendly at my one and only service there, requested by my mom on her visit to NYC for a second opinion on her terminal illness -- small, very dark lol.
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@flozen said in First Trans Lutheran Bishop:
@eobox91103 Occasionally my brain is incapacitated, and at this moment I'm whiffing on the method to engage you via sending on Messages. Could you send a "test" over, as I know it will allow for a reply.
And as a very brief and tangential return to topic, there's a unique Lutheran church in Midtown NYC you must see on you next visit. The church owned the mega-desirable plot of land, and sold it to Citibank for a gleaming tower, with the stipulation it could construct a church in the basement. The architects did a great job with skylights that allow you to peer down or up, as the case might be.
The congregation was not particularly friendly at my one and only service, requested for my mom's visit, lol.
I don't know how one sends messages any more: It used to be (if I recall correctly) that clicking on a person's name would bring up a profile page that had a "send message" button. That doesn't seem to be there any more...or if it's there, it's very well disguised. Perhaps someone reading this knows the secret. It would be unfortunate if gt.ru made a conscious decision to eliminate private messages.
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I know this topic is old, but I felt like replying to it anyway. I wanted to thank you for having posted the info about Rev Roher election as bishop of ELCA Sierra pacific synod. I was raised atheist (Father was physics professor) but approached ELCA on my own as part of my quest. In was pretty involved in the church until I moved to Europe. Since I belong(ed) to the same synod, I personally met Megan at assemblies and events, and even the other ELCA LGBTQ+ Californian bishop, Guy Erwin. Fine people. I think ELCA is doing a good job in opening church doors to gay couples and gay ministers. Very late, of course, but better late than never! Sierra Pacific synod is very diverse in terms of LGBTQ+ acceptance by the different parishes and communities. Clearly, Silicon Valley is a very peculiar reality.
I take this opportunity also to express my appreciation for this thread, "Religion and Philosophy". I think it is important for gay people to freely express they concern, struggles, but also positive experiences within religious contexts. I'd hope this threat to be more active. Best,
K. -
I agree - this is a once-popular discussion area that I'd like to see return.
My own religious upbringing was more like a "comparative judeo-christian religions" course - we started out Methodist (because my dad was the choir director), then went Presbyterian because my mom liked the minister... I sang in that choir for many years. Then I started attending Catholic Mass because I'd joined a Boy Scout Troop there and I wanted to earn the religious "medal" in Scouts - so it was the Catholic one for me!
Meanwhile, my father ALSO was a choir director / sometimes fill-in cantor for one of the largest Jewish synagogues in the area. (One Passover, the normal cantor up and quit 2 days before the services... my dad filled in and no one was the wiser, until one old lady discovered that a "gentile" had been the cantor "that week" and had a hissy fit! It nearly cost the Rabbi his job!) Anyway, we would attend those services too...
At 58, I consider myself a pseudo-agnostic. I don't dis-believe in God, I just don't think the "real thing" is looking at me in particular to see how often I masturbate or what language I speak what words in... I think those parts of religion are primarily used to "control the masses" (which is fine when its messages like "don't eat pork because the trichinosis will eat your brains out", but less fine when its "you must eat fish on Fridays because the fishermen need more money" or "Vote for Candidate A because he's a better Christian than B")
So, I'm afraid I just don't have much of a place in my life for large-scale organized religion... I find it a "convenient" place for people with non-curious minds to go to explain that which they cannot explain otherwise. And I don't like "being controlled"... LOL
That said, I find the community and socialization of local churches to be (usually) refreshing and enjoyable experiences. I attend a Unitarian Universalist congregation these days, but also sometimes sing in a Baptist choir - admittedly solely for the music! - I say that, even though I haven't sung with them since 2020 (the pandemic ended choirs for those who successfully blend science and religion, don't ya know, LOL)...
I tried attending a local gay (MCC) church, but found the people there very judgemental and cliquish. I didn't want to expend the energy they were demanding to "fit in with the right people" ... my last day there, I told one of them that "if there are right-people and wrong-people in this Church, then I'm the wrong person for this Church"
Mind you, I don't "worship" Science either - most decent scientists will tell you: most of what we know scientifically is only "mostly right" - there is so much we DO NOT know yet, it'd be foolish to assume he have anything "completely" right ... and that is the nature of Science, after all: to question the things we "know" so as to discover where we've been wrong!
Remember, it was the "scientists" of the time who used leeches and "bloodletting" to cure the sick! Funny thing, we "modern people" were so sure those "stupid" people from the past were "dead wrong" (a pun, as their "treatments" often quickened their patient's pathway to death!) - but now, today, leeches are commonly used by modern medicine - especially in post-surgical recovery. They apparently DO help in re-establishing blood flow!
Anyway - that's why I call myself pseudo-agnostic - I'm literally always questioning things... even (especially) myself!
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@bi4smooth
Thank you for your post! Very interesting. I am sorry to hear that people at a community were judgmental. Unfortunately, this is so common in Christian communities, in spite of the fact the Big Guy taught to leave all judgments to the Bigger Guy... I particularly dislike the "magic circle" attitude some communities have: to be very involved to impress the pastor and being at the "right side" of the community, as you said.
As per the relationship between belief and unbelief. Once a wise guy gave this definition of faith: faith is the dialogue between the believer and the unbeliever who live within me. I find this profoundly telling. -
@Kowmei
Faith gives many people strength - sometimes profound strength! I appreciate and applaud that...But leaning on your faith and using that strength to make it through grueling cancer treatments is one thing... using your faith to storm the Capitol so you can keep "your chosen one" in power is totally another...
Again, while I didn't say it in these words before: Faith and Religion are a double-edged sword. It can be used for Good and for Evil equally as easily!
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So, this comment relates back to the decline in participation on the Religion board, and any others that aren't political (now that Requests are history).
As my memory fades, didn't the old design have a scroll-over capability on boards, where the most recent response would come up in full as a thought bubble, rather than the few words that appear in static form today? Hmm.
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@flozen said in First Trans Lutheran Bishop:
So, this comment relates back to the decline in participation on the Religion board, and any others that aren't political (now that Requests are history).
Participation in the Religion board has indeed fallen off drastically (as it has on the few other boards that remain), which is a pity: Religion, or something claiming to be religion, is a part of society and family, and something that will affect LGBT people in a variety of ways. It would be good to have discussion on that, especially since the religion topics don't seem dominated by bullies or cancel culture. People tend to be civil and rational even if they don't agree on something.
As my memory fades, didn't the old design have a scroll-over capability on boards, where the most recent response would come up in full as a thought bubble, rather than the few words that appear in static form today? Hmm.
There were several features of the old forum (including the mouse-over item you identify) that got lost with the new design. I don't know the back story on why there was a redesign--the previous forum worked just fine.
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@eobox91103 said in First Trans Lutheran Bishop:
Religion, or something claiming to be religion, is a part of society and family, and something that will affect LGBT people in a variety of ways. It would be good to have discussion on that, especially since the religion topics don't seem dominated by bullies or cancel culture.
I agree with the first part of the quote. On one hand, the historical Churches are certainly declining in attendance, but religion, the feeling of transcendence or the need to feel a transcendent, arcane and trans-individual "breath" is still very present (in yoga trend, the fascination of superheroes sagas...). On the other hand, the non-historical churches, e.g. charismatic churches, are very much flourishing. And these tendencies, institutions, gatherings, and movements do impact the life of LGBTQ people.
Concerning the second part of the quote, I shall partially disagree. I have read posts in this forum in which the tones weren't always respectful, or weren't perceived as respectful by the party concerned. I guess there is always room for improvement!
Anyway, in light of my personal religious path and my gay identity, I would be very much interested in sharing positive and negative interactions with religious institutions and persons with other members of this Forum and Community!
Best,
K.
