Universal Healthcare according to liberals
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@raphjd said in Universal Healthcare according to liberals:
Um... not defending the idiots in the Illinois State Legislature (every state legislature has wakkos in it - and since I live in Florida, I will not throw TOO MUCH shade at Illinois! My State LEADS THE WORLD in wakko!) - BUT - wouldn't this be Selective NON-Healthcare (vs. Universal Healthcare)???
I get it - vaccine mandate <==> universal healthcare... but this isn't about the vaccine mandate, this is about "punishing" people who won't comply.
For the record: in Illinois, if you get COVID-19, the Gov't covers your medical bills - IN ADDITION TO your insurance. The idea is to ensure that anyone who gets COVID-19 can get fully treated, regardless of insurance status.
I haven't read the idiotic bill (and I won't) - but it would seem to me that this bill would remove that State coverage for COVID-19 - which would ONLY affect POOR PEOPLE, because the wealthy all have health insurance... GOOD Health Insurance, I might add!
In short: this is wrong - on many levels - regardless of how pro-vax or anti-vax you might otherwise be...
I've tried to make this point before:
- Vaccines are GOOD! They are saving lives EVERY DAY! That includes older vaccines (like Polio and Chicken Pox), as well as new ones (like HPV, Shingles, and COVID-19)
- Requiring vaccines to go certain places and do certain things is ALREADY PRESENT in our culture... just TRY to register your kids for public schools without their up-to-date shot records! If you're anti-vax for your kids, you either home-school or private-school your kids, and we've all agreed to that for decades now! Why is the COVID-19 shot any different?
- Requiring people to take a vaccine PERIOD (as-in, there is no way to decide NOT to take it) is un-American and amoral to my Libertarian beliefs. If you ACCEPT that you cannot work for the Federal Gov't (or a contractor), or go certain places, or do certain things because of your choice, that's fine - BUT IT IS STILL YOUR CHOICE!
- This doesn't have to be SO HARD! Except that we're telling ADULTS to get a shot, and not children! This is the same thing as "required" school vaccinations, and don't get me started on the military! My son in in the Army - they had DOZENS of additional shots given to them during Basic Training... no opt-outs, unless you were allergic to something (in which case, you got an alternate treatment - but you did NOT "opt out"!). Orders are orders! Take the shot or be Court Marshall-ed for disobedience! Refusing to take the COVID-19 shot in the military is NO DIFFERENT than refusing to be deployed to Iraq because it's too dangerous, or refusing to do push-ups because the ground is too dirty! Orders are orders, soldier|sailor|airman|marine|coastie|guardian!
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So, you would support removing universal health coverage for any preventable illness/injury too?
Not being obese saves lives too.
This is a constant debate in countries with universal health care and has been going on for decades, about all manner of illnesses/injuries.
If you didn't do X, Y, or Z, you would not need health care, so either stop doing it or you won't be covered.
The annual cheese roll where you throw yourself down a hill and the first one to the bottom wins a 20lbs cheese roll, after years of debate, had to get private insurance to hold the event to cover any medical costs.
Oddly, there is no such insurance to cover idiotic bike riders and countless others.
The point is, liberals, love universal healthcare, but also love to exclude those they don't feel deserve it.
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@raphjd said in Universal Healthcare according to liberals:
So, you would support removing universal health coverage for any preventable illness/injury too?
Once again, you prove that your "reading comprehension" is at a pre-school level:
What I said was:
In short: this is wrong - on many levels - regardless of how pro-vax or anti-vax you might otherwise be...
I'm not sure how you missed that, or mis-interpreted it... except that you didn't even read it before replying...
Yeah! That's the ticket!
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But you, like any good CCP/DNC agent, love mandatory vaccines and creating 2nd class citizens out of the unvaccinated.
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@raphjd said in Universal Healthcare according to liberals:
But you, like any good CCP/DNC agent, love mandatory vaccines and creating 2nd class citizens out of the unvaccinated.
Still attacking the straw-man, I see... and still proving you are incapable of COMPREHENDING what you read...
Again, quoting myself from above:
Requiring people to take a vaccine PERIOD (as-in, there is no way to decide NOT to take it) is un-American and amoral to my Libertarian beliefs. If you ACCEPT that you cannot work for the Federal Gov't (or a contractor), or go certain places, or do certain things because of your choice, that's fine - BUT IT IS STILL YOUR CHOICE!
So, I guess the question is really this:
- Does one get to flaunt public health and endanger others, without any repurcussions? NO!!
- Does one have the freedom to consider the consequences of your actions - including the potential loss of certain privileges - and still choose NOT to be vaccinated? Absolutely
Using the school vaccinations as an example (again): if you feel so strongly about vaccines that you refuse to vaccinate your child, you absolutely have that right - but in exercising that right, you forfeit the privilege of a free, public education for your child. Thus, you absolutely DO have a choice!
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@bi4smooth said in Universal Healthcare according to liberals:
- Requiring people to take a vaccine PERIOD (as-in, there is no way to decide NOT to take it) is un-American and amoral to my Libertarian beliefs. If you ACCEPT that you cannot work for the Federal Gov't (or a contractor), or go certain places, or do certain things because of your choice, that's fine - BUT IT IS STILL YOUR CHOICE!
Indeed so--and people often have more choice than they think: For example, security screening at the airport is optional, not mandatory. A person can refuse to be screened. If the person refuses, s/he won't be allowed to go past the checkpoint to the gates and get on a plane--but the option of refusing to be screened does exist.
I think covid vaccination should be optional...but if a person refuses to be vaccinated, then s/he should not be permitted to be in contact with other people, whether in the home or in public.That might sound severe, but it is the price of the freedom to not be vaccinated.
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I do love your liberal justifications for creating 2nd class citizens.
You liberals love to be nazis about every topic.
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@raphjd Liberals already have second class citizen of their own creation they are can "People of Color"
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I agree.
Liberal racism of low expectations that allows POCs to refuse to get vaccinated, would force them out of society under liberal covid nazi rules.
Let's not forget that liberals love China and Chinese ways, like welding the unvaccinated into their homes.
Noam Chomsky said that do a similar thing, but also deny them food and water until they comply "willingly".
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@raphjd GOOD!
