covid vaxx don't stop covid, says NY Supreme Court
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https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/oct/26/ny-court-orders-rehiring-back-pay-for-fired-unvacc/
“Being [covid] vaccinated does not prevent an individual from contracting or transmitting COVID-19,” the Monday decision by Judge Ralph J. Porzio said.
Obviously,
- he's not a doctor
- but took some sort of data from doctors
- viewpoint will be controversial or will go against some other doctors
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I posted about this in the Politics section.
The court decision was well laid out, pointing to several sources, including the CDC's own information and guidelines.
As discussed in another thread in the Politics section, "prevents" is a total lie. "Reduces" is more accurate.
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@raphjd With respect: "Reduces" is not more accurate. Covid vaxx do not lower your chance of infection, period.
Some studies even show "negative protection", ie., being highly vaxxed is a boost to your infection chances.
Reasons are technical, have to do with fast-mutating RNA viruses, mass vaccination events that imprint everyone's immune system in roughly the same way at roughly the same time with roughly the same outdated information, vaxx self-evolution into NEW VARIANTS that defeat what was mass-imprinted, or even exploit what was mass-imprinted to the virus' own advantage, yadda yadda.
The same reasons why they never been able to make a population-scale, effective vaccine for HIV....HIV being another fast-mutating retrovirus or "RNA virus".
To sell covid vaxx, what Big Pharma says now is: at least they reduce your chance of severe infection.
But guess what? Natural covid infection does the same. By now, most people - especially vaxxed people - have had a natural infection. & so are protected long-term from serious illness.
P.S. your bit in the Politics section was fine, weighted more to the political angle like employee reinstatements. Here, I wanted to weight the pure health angle.
It's now known that for covid to hurt a young person in any serious way, is rare....while covid VAXX, on the other hand, hurt at least some young men with side effects on the heart - myocarditis, pericarditis. At rates higher than natural covid infection; which, again, the vaxx don't prevent nor "reduce" to begin with. They're shit products.
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BQ, the newest variant, is said to infect the vaxxed at rates 3 times the unvaxxed.
3 times! or 200% more. And it is said to infect "recently boosted" the most.
https://twitter.com/EthicalSkeptic/status/1584978640286015488
First data I've seen, "hot take" don't vouch for it, but seeing how it all comes out will be fascinating.
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In short, to make this more brief, no vaccine whether it's COVID or flu, etc., prevents you from catching it or getting sick. No vaccine actually kills a virus. It prevents you from becoming seriously ill, hospitilization, or dying. Your body's immune system eventually wears down the virus. You actually just naturally heal yourself. They've been saying this for a long time, and people still are stubborn about accepting what the COVID vaccine actually does. Yes, you can still catch and transmit the virus. The vaccine simply protects you and your health.
The whole point about that article is that a vaccine mandate among workers is so unvaccinated workers don't pick up the virus from vaccinated workers who may have been exposed to COVID...it prevents serious illness or worse if someone is unvaccinated.
Personally, in the past year and a half, I've gotten 5 COVID vaccine shots...the two initial doses, two regular boosters, and a month ago the updated bivalent booster. I'm 62, diabetic, and am taking no chances in ending up in the hospital. I also use at home COVID tests once in awhile to make sure I haven't picked up the virus.
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If you read the thread in the Politics section, the court ruled that it was purely political since Mayor Adams was quite selective in who had to obey the vaxx mandate.
Athletes and other celebs were exempt from the vaxx mandate, as if they were immune, as a class, from covid.
The court ruled the vaxx mandate was about compliance, not health.
Also, the NYC Health Commissioner does not have the power to alter employee contracts or fire people, according to the court.
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@cinemacapman No - What you're saying is not what I'm saying.
A real vaccine trains your immune system to recognize and fight a pathogen when you encounter it. Technically, yes you had a slight infection. But you beat it off so easily, it doesn't matter. In layman's terms, you are indeed "immune" and "stopped the spread".
Covid vaxx do none of that. I say "vaxx" because covid vaxx are not real vaccines.
First, most covid vaxx train you to fight only a tiny piece or two of the covid pathogen, the bits called "spike protein" and "receptor binding domain".
In technical terms the covid vaxx give you a much smaller range of epitopes / paratropes for fighting future onslaughts than you would get from a natural infection or from a whole-pathogen, classic vaccine.
The justification offered at the time (Dec 2020) was "the narrow epitopes don't matter because the antibodies are top notch ie. fully neutralizing and that's everything you need". But the antibodies were fully neutralizing only on the original, now-extinct "ancestral" or "Wuhan" variant of covid. Which takes us to the next problem...
Second: the tiny bits they targeted (spike & RBD) are the fastest-mutating bits of the covid pathogen. They evolve quickly and easily, as we have seen in reality, into new variants defeating the vaxx.
Thus, "in vitro" (test tube), we already see the vaxx giving low-ish levels of protection against new variants; this is called immune escape. But worse: "in vivo" (real people) the vaxx might even give ANTI-protection. Through effects such as OAS (Original Antigenic Sin) or perhaps ADE (Antibody Dependent Enhancement), the vaxx might even assist new variants in getting at you. A few studies support this.
Third, the bits they targeted (spike & RBD) are toxic with vaxx reactions & "adverse events", not in everybody, but in too many people. Fatigue & autoimmune reactions resembling covid disease, menstrual & fertility problems, blood clots, heart injury in young men, Bell's Palsy.
All that is the opposite of what real vaccines do.
Even if real vaccines leave you technically open to slight infections: real vaccines are, so to speak, "safe and effective". Covid vaxx are not.
Part of the problem is "the moving target" - it is very tough, perhaps impossible, to make a real vaccine against any fast-mutating RNA virus. Which is why in 2022 still no HIV vaccine. HIV is another fast-mutating RNA virus. It's easier to make a vaccine against a slower-moving target, like a DNA virus or a bacterium.
But a bigger problem is: they knew the above from minute one and, rather than admit it, they plowed ahead anyway - a.k.a. shit products & lying to people. ("they" is: Big Pharma, Big Media, FDA, CDC, Fauci, doctors & hospitals, Presidents both Trump & Biden)
Sorry but that's what I know / what's been coming out lately.
P.S. Don't bother saying "Bivalent! They just updated the vaxx for omicron!" Because even that is outdated. The bivalent is for omicron BA1, another extinct old variant.
Not to politicize this but, if you're a Democrat, blaming the covid vaxx disaster on Trump (Operation Warp Speed, indeed) might make it psychologically easier for you to face it. Best wishes.
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@raphjd Yes - the lying, "People can feel safe they're not gonna get it."
The lie has blown up. The liars now scramble to say:
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Oh but every vaccine leaves you technically a bit open.
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It's still proven that "vaccines" (vague & general) reduce spread.
The truthful response is: Yes. Conceded. Which means covid vaxx, doing so very badly, aren't real vaccines. Oopsie. Y'all walked right into that one. Science details given earlier. Real vaccines are safe & effective, we agree 100%. If only we had some, for covid.
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Weird to re-read this one. 5 months ago, saying the vaxx don't stop the spread was SUPER controversial. Had to explain details carefully.
But today it's so obvious that even vaxx advocates will lie & go "Oh I never said what I said - I never told anyone that the vaxx would completely halt the spread & the unvaxxed were killing Grandma."
Yes you did say that, you flaming liars.
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@cinemacapman said in covid vaxx don't stop covid, says NY Supreme Court:
no vaccine whether it's COVID or flu, etc., prevents you from catching it or getting sick. No vaccine actually kills a virus. It prevents you from becoming seriously ill, hospitilization, or dying. Your body's immune system eventually wears down the virus. You actually just naturally heal yourself. They've been saying this for a long time, and people still are stubborn about accepting what the COVID vaccine actually does. Yes, you can still catch and transmit the virus. The vaccine simply protects you and your health.
This is the medical fact, and that's what belongs in a Health and Fitness forum thread.
If you want to call people liars, spread conspiracy theories, or espouse "alternative facts," there's another forum board for doing that.
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@eobox91103 First - the reference is to what @raphjd had posted in this thread - I guess you missed it - and now it's gone, sadly - but I believe it was a highlight reel of all the lying liars on TV saying covid vaxx will definitely stop the spread & you're killing Grandma if you don't.
Second - "no vaccine whether it's COVID or flu, etc., prevents you from catching it or getting sick" - is NOT the medical fact.
Repeat: NOT.
Real vaccines work. Real vaccines DO "prevent you from catching it or getting sick."
Just not the covid vaxx (which, therefore & for some other reasons also, are not real vaccines).
BCG (tuberculosis), the MMRs & TDAPs, even Jynneos - they work. That's the medical fact. Remember when Monkeypox was a thing, just last year?
If you, @eobox91103 would like to spread or endorse medical misinformation or other lies - "There's a forum for that."
And as another wise admin said recently, "What's the difference between conspiracy theory and truth? About 6 months."
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@blablarg18 If you want to call people liars, spread conspiracy theories, or espouse "alternative facts," there's another forum board for doing that.
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@eobox91103 If you want to defend lies or perhaps be a liar - spreading medical misinformation among other things - there's another forum board for doing that.
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@blablarg18 That other board is also the only place where it is permitted--even encouraged--to insult people. It doesn't belong here.
The argument ad hominem (literally, "to the man"), such as name-calling or insulting, is the weakest form of discourse. It is the ultimate refuge for those devoid of fact, reason, or intelligence.
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@blablarg18 said in covid vaxx don't stop covid, says NY Supreme Court:
there's another forum board for doing that.
I absolutely agree! That other board is filled with lies and misinformation.
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@eobox91103 And you are going there. Why would you go to ad hominem when you know it's wrong?
Rather than, say, addressing the content of anything I said?
Also, why would you come to this board and say things that, medically, are just false?
I don't expect you to give honest answers. You've taught me to lower my expectations. In another thread, I saw you re-write or mis-quote comments to your own ends.
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@blablarg18 Here's an interesting exercise: In the browser search box, type in "you" as a search term, and see how many times it gets highlighted in various messages. I use Firefox, and it gives me the following:
When a post is primarily about another person, and not about the issues, it's off-topic, and probably worthless.
I recommend to the Forum Administrator that this thread be locked, and perhaps deleted.
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@eobox91103 Cannot hold up to accurate descriptions of your behavior, eh?
You come to a thread, piss in it with a mixture of worthless contributions & falsehoods while avoiding questions - then complain it should be locked.
One name for such game-playing behavior is Holier Than Thou... another Denial... another is, Escape Accountability... another is, Run To Mommy.
Meanwhile: what I've said about the covid vaxx, is all good information.
So if thread is locked - no problem, your tactics worked yay for you - and yay for me I still said what was right.
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