France’s Macron Stuns As He Declares Un-Vaxxed ‘Not Citizens’.
-
-
Macron isn't being helpful...this was likely a moment of rage that he will soon regret.
His actual comment was, "Quand ma liberté vient menacer celle des autres, je deviens un irresponsable. Un irresponsable n’est plus un citoyen" (When my liberty becomes a menace to others, I become irresponsible. An irresponsible [person] is no longer a citizen.) His statement is incorrect under French law.
He could have expressed his thought by saying that "the irresponsible are not acting like good citizens," but even that would have been inflammatory. It might even have been irresponsible, which would then backfire on him. (Le karma, c'est une chienne.)
One doesn't persuade people by publicly insulting or shaming them. His wife was a school teacher, and would know this quite well. I think the two of them will have a rather spirited conversation.
-
@raphjd It depends about what you think that the word "citizens" mean. It has different meanings, so it is actually not so bad, even when he could had said it a bit better or clearer.
-
@serenity said in France’s Macron Stuns As He Declares Un-Vaxxed ‘Not Citizens’.:
It depends about what you think that the word "citizens" mean. It has different meanings, so it is actually not so bad, even when he could had said it a bit better or clearer.
"Not so bad" claiming to remove a person's rights as a Citizen for not complying with a experimental vaccine?
The Vaccine should be a voluntary medical treatment give to people that are high risk factors such as obesity, compromised immune system & the elderly same as the yearly flu vaccine.
-
@geobear40 So you don't understand, when I wrote that the word "citizen" has different meanings. You should try and look it up, before you write here. And for the record the vaccines are not experimental.
-
@serenity
It was clear how he was using the word "Citizen" in his statement.The vaccines are for use under a emergency use authorization and have not yet been approved by the FDA. You should look it up before you write here. They are not doing what they intended to do which was provide 90%-95% protection from the virus. So they are "Experimental" as to what they actually do.
-
To be clear here, he's not using Executive Authority to remove their citizenship... he's just saying so to "piss them off"... something he makes clear, and something he's getting quite a bit of push-back about.
Probably not a great strategy, but he's getting his name in the headlines... I can think of another politician who used to say truly stunningly stupid things to make sure he was in the headlines... what was is name again?
-
@geobear40 said in France’s Macron Stuns As He Declares Un-Vaxxed ‘Not Citizens’.:
@serenity
It was clear how he was using the word "Citizen" in his statement.The vaccines are for use under a emergency use authorization and have not yet been approved by the FDA. You should look it up before you write here. They are not doing what they intended to do which was provide 90%-95% protection from the virus. So they are "Experimental" as to what they actually do.
FDA approval of the Pfizer vaccine is completed. I have posted the link to the FDA website itself in the past. That you continue to claim that this is not true is either stupidity on your part, or a deliberate attempt to deceive. Either way you are EASILY proven wrong in that assertion... time to move on to something equally ludicrous but less easily refuted, if you ask me! LOL
It's kind-of-hard to find information on the full-approval status on the Moderna or J&J vaccines, because results are overwhelmed by results on their EUA and Pfizer's full approval status... but I did find a site that seems to be tracking it: GoodRX
In summary:
- Pfizer is fully approved for ages 18+
- Pfizer's approval for people ages 12-18 and 5-12 is still in-process, but they remain available under the EUA (authorization vs. approval)
- Moderna applied for full approval for ages 12+, but there are some questions about the myocarditis some have experienced with the Moderna, so approval (aka: full approval vs authorization under the EUA) has been delayed
- Moderna's authorization for ages 12+ remains under the EUA
- Johnson & Johnson has not yet applied for full approval, but remains available under the EUA.
-
@bi4smooth
The vaccine that the FDA approved is "Legally Distinct" from the one administered in the USA. It is called COMIRNATY and is not used in the USA.https://heavy.com/news/comirnaty-vs-pfizer-vaccine-legally-distinct/
If it was the same vaccine then the FDA would approve it.
Why were boosters not given to the full FDA advisory panel? Did the FDA which receives 45% of it operating budget from the Pharma industry have a vested interest in pushing vaccines?
-
@geobear40 said in France’s Macron Stuns As He Declares Un-Vaxxed ‘Not Citizens’.:
@bi4smooth
The vaccine that the FDA approved is "Legally Distinct" from the one administered in the USA. It is called COMIRNATY and is not used in the USA.https://heavy.com/news/comirnaty-vs-pfizer-vaccine-legally-distinct/
If it was the same vaccine then the FDA would approve it.
Why were boosters not given to the full FDA advisory panel? Did the FDA which receives 45% of it operating budget from the Pharma industry have a vested interest in pushing vaccines?
No, it is NOT distinct... under the EUA, Pfizer cannot legally market the vaccine, so it cannot have a "name" - once it was approved, Pfizer - as they do with all of their products - gave it a name when it was approved!
READ THE FDA APPROVAL NOTICE
You don't need a PhD to understand it, nor a legal degree! It's in pretty plain English!
As for boosters, they are the exact same vaccines as the other doses... the only vaccine doses that are different are the ones for children, which are at a lower dose.
Once approved by the FDA, there is no "separate" approval for administering the vaccine in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th dose! (FWIW: many people with compromised immune systems have received WAY MORE than 3 doses!)
-
@bi4smooth said in France’s Macron Stuns As He Declares Un-Vaxxed ‘Not Citizens’.:
READ THE FDA APPROVAL NOTICE
I did but unlike you I dig further before I take the word of any government entity. You may believe that it is the same because you may want to believe, I don't know but your wishing something to be true doesn't necessarily make it so.
As for boosters, they are the exact same vaccines as the other doses... the only vaccine doses that are different are the ones for children, which are at a lower dose.
That is not completely true I know that the Moderna booster for instance is a half dose for the booster. Immune compromised individual receive the full dose as a booster.
Once approved by the FDA, there is no "separate" approval for administering the vaccine in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th dose! (FWIW: many people with compromised immune systems have received WAY MORE than 3 doses!)
Any changes to the does, formulation or distribution normally passes thru an FDA advisory panel to review the data and formulate the course of action dictated by the Science.
As I stated above "If it was the same vaccine then the FDA would approve it." it is still an experimental drug and under EUA.
The FDA panel rejected the use of boosters based on the science but the CDC Director overruled them and pushed boosters thru like a good subservient government hack that she is.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/24/world/covid-boosters-vaccine-cdc-director.html
-
OK - arguing this point with you is akin to arguing the validity of Dec 25 being an even remotely possible actual date for the birth of Jesus (regardless of his divinity)... for you, it's a religious-belief... even the FDA itself cannot dissuade you from your belief that the Pfizer vaccine given nearly 10-billion times so far is identical to the "Comirnaty" vaccine approved.
From the FDA's own release:
The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty (koe-mir’-na-tee), for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older.
I'm not sure how you find that confusing, but I have no interest in convincing you - I'd as soon argue with a rock that it needs to move to get more sunshine! (They even make it clear in that statement that "Comirnaty" is a marketing name... FACTS!)
Rather, I am writing to those readers who are interested in facts, not beliefs.
-
@bi4smooth said in France’s Macron Stuns As He Declares Un-Vaxxed ‘Not Citizens’.:
The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty (koe-mir’-na-tee), for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older.
Comirnaty is not used in the USA. So what is being used is not FDA approved
-
@geobear40 said in France’s Macron Stuns As He Declares Un-Vaxxed ‘Not Citizens’.:
@bi4smooth said in France’s Macron Stuns As He Declares Un-Vaxxed ‘Not Citizens’.:
The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty (koe-mir’-na-tee), for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older.
Comirnaty is not used in the USA. So what is being used is not FDA approved
This is correct. I don't understand @bi4smooth 's argument.
-
Yet all of the covid vaccines are legally exempt from any liability, even Pfizer which is fully approved.
Also, you claimed that everyone needed a medical degree to understand the very simple definition on NIH's website on GOF research. Hell, you even claimed that Sen Rand Paul couldn't understand it because he was simply an eye doctor.
-
-
@raphjd
All vaccines regardless of what they treat are shielded from liability.Vaccines are only tested to figure out a dose that does something and doesn't kill. After that it is trial and error until they find the best formula. Oh in case you didn't know trial and error is done on the general population.
-
@raphjd What is it with France? Countries typically have good leaders, and bad leaders.. but countries such as Canada and France always have bad leaders.
-
@raphjd said in France’s Macron Stuns As He Declares Un-Vaxxed ‘Not Citizens’.:
You get no argument that me that the "rich and powerful" often flout the same rules they seek to enforce on everyone else! But why limit that to COVID-19? That has always been the case (look, for example, at all of the "fair labor" standards - that exempt Congress!)
That doesn't make it any better when they do it with COVID rules, but it also shouldn't stand-out just because it's COVID!
Getting back to the point of the article: The stupid statement - which was not an official declaration, just something said, albeit to intentionally upset the un-vaccinated, to call attention to the issue.
He (Macron) has been lambasted by both sides... let's just say it was like a racist joke that wasn't all that funny to start with, wasn't taken well, and wound up offending everyone... when all you REALLY wanted was a chuckle...
-
@bi4smooth said in France’s Macron Stuns As He Declares Un-Vaxxed ‘Not Citizens’.:
...The stupid statement - which was not an official declaration, just something said...
It would be amusing if someone in France responded to him, "But M. Macron, your statement was irresponsible, and thus by your own logic you are not a citizen of the Republic, and thus you are not eligible to be President."
