If You Found George W. Bush’s Speech Offensive, You’re The Problem, Not Him
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@rapjjd, what kind of wiretaps are you talking about with Obama? He had authority via The Patriot Act, which the American people allowed to pass unless you're talking about something else.
YES, those. As well as the other bits included in the Patriot Act and done by executive order.
Obama campaigned to end all that shit, if elected President. Obama expanded those program far beyond anything GWB had.
Obama campaigned against No Bid contracts, except in dire emergency. I totally agreed with him. Turns out that was a fucking lie. He used them for things like routine and scheduled mothballing of ships. GWB used them for oil fires in Iraq, despite Schlumberger being the best company to do oil fires, giving the contracts to Halliburton.
The people from what I remember were against most parts of the Patriot Act, as were Obama and Clinton.
Raphjd is exactly correct. GWB did some terrible things Obama promised to fix. So, I can understand why someone would vote for Obama in 2008 (even though I knew better). Obama did not only NOT fix those problems, he made those problems even WORSE. Anybody who voted for Obama in 2012 should have MORON tattooed onto their forehead.
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@rapjjd, what kind of wiretaps are you talking about with Obama? He had authority via The Patriot Act, which the American people allowed to pass unless you're talking about something else.
YES, those. As well as the other bits included in the Patriot Act and done by executive order.
Obama campaigned to end all that shit, if elected President. Obama expanded those program far beyond anything GWB had.
Obama campaigned against No Bid contracts, except in dire emergency. I totally agreed with him. Turns out that was a fucking lie. He used them for things like routine and scheduled mothballing of ships. GWB used them for oil fires in Iraq, despite Schlumberger being the best company to do oil fires, giving the contracts to Halliburton.
The people from what I remember were against most parts of the Patriot Act, as were Obama and Clinton.
I was angry about that (the Patriot Act), too. I also turned against Obama when he had to square his religion with allowing same-sex marriage but you're missing a few things: 1) the campaign trail is different from governing; 2) the information he had during (the beginning of) his campaign about how useful tools like the P.A. was different before and after he took office; 3) he had zero experience in international politics so what he thought was doable (peace in Israel, for example) wasn't and he changed gears.
Simply put, the campaign is the war and governing is maintaining the peace.
You can't insist he was lying if he didn't know the extent of what he could do or if he had to walk a longer road to fulfil certain promises, same-sex marriage is a good example.
Obama wasn't Trumpian. Had Obama gone in on day one and pushed same-sex marriage he would have lost a lot of support because the majority of American's hadn't been sold on the idea. Look to California, a very liberal state, for a clear example. I didn't like that he pushed it aside and made a public pronouncement on how far he'd come on the issue, but in the end, he delivered. That's politics.
A lot of the language you and Fred use imply that Obama wanted to wreck the US and the world. No. He took hold of an ideology that destroys the world believing that this way was the better way. Obama and the left believe in Globalization and feel that if people are exposed to our brand of democracy through globalization that they'll come running towards it. He was and is wrong.
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@rapjjd, what kind of wiretaps are you talking about with Obama? He had authority via The Patriot Act, which the American people allowed to pass unless you're talking about something else.
YES, those. As well as the other bits included in the Patriot Act and done by executive order.
Obama campaigned to end all that shit, if elected President. Obama expanded those program far beyond anything GWB had.
Obama campaigned against No Bid contracts, except in dire emergency. I totally agreed with him. Turns out that was a fucking lie. He used them for things like routine and scheduled mothballing of ships. GWB used them for oil fires in Iraq, despite Schlumberger being the best company to do oil fires, giving the contracts to Halliburton.
The people from what I remember were against most parts of the Patriot Act, as were Obama and Clinton.
I was angry about that (the Patriot Act), too. I also turned against Obama when he had to square his religion with allowing same-sex marriage but you're missing a few things: 1) the campaign trail is different from governing; 2) the information he had during (the beginning of) his campaign about how useful tools like the P.A. was different before and after he took office; 3) he had zero experience in international politics so what he thought was doable (peace in Israel, for example) wasn't and he changed gears.
Simply put, the campaign is the war and governing is maintaining the peace.
You can't insist he was lying if he didn't know the extent of what he could do or if he had to walk a longer road to fulfil certain promises, same-sex marriage is a good example.
Obama wasn't Trumpian. Had Obama gone in on day one and pushed same-sex marriage he would have lost a lot of support because the majority of American's hadn't been sold on the idea. Look to California, a very liberal state, for a clear example. I didn't like that he pushed it aside and made a public pronouncement on how far he'd come on the issue, but in the end, he delivered. That's politics.
A lot of the language you and Fred use imply that Obama wanted to wreck the US and the world. No. He took hold of an ideology that destroys the world believing that this way was the better way. Obama and the left believe in Globalization and feel that if people are exposed to our brand of democracy through globalization that they'll come running towards it. He was and is wrong.
Obama is muslim and hates Israel. For the first 13 years of his life, he was raised in Indonesia (a muslim country) by a strict muslim nut named Soetoro. The same-sex marriage thing is confusing. Ultra liberal California was AGAINST it.. which I still don't understand. Several states started allowing same-sex marriages, and Obama and Hillary were slow to support it. Hillary was vocally against same-sex marriage for decades, but then with no explanation did a complete flip-flop. Perhaps Obama supported same-sex marriage to give Muslim countries a reason to hate the USA. Same situation with using drones to bomb weddings and funerals.
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Obama is muslim and hates Israel. For the first 13 years of his life, he was raised in Indonesia (a muslim country) by a strict muslim nut named Soetoro. The same-sex marriage thing is confusing. Ultra liberal California was AGAINST it.. which I still don't understand. Several states started allowing same-sex marriages, and Obama and Hillary were slow to support it. Hillary was vocally against same-sex marriage for decades, but then with no explanation did a complete flip-flop. Perhaps Obama supported same-sex marriage to give Muslim countries a reason to hate the USA. Same situation with using drones to bomb weddings and funerals.
You can't know what's going on in Obama's head, so don't assume you know what he loves and hates.
Obama had a plan to bring peace to the Middle East which involved getting strict with Israel (not unlike how Trump is getting strict with NK) and Obama later backed down, I presume because he didn't have the political capital.
I think living in Indonesia opened Obama's mind about Islam. It's not scary to him. When he grew up there Indonesia was still tolerant. The current brand of Islam wasn't there. Let me be plain: I don't think Islam fits in the West and I'd prefer people from that part of the world not immigrate to the US. But it's not my country, so I'll make a compromise that if we're allowing Muslim people that they must be real moderates or secular. If you feel your woman should wear a hijab or that the mosque must be separated by sex, you can't immigrate. Obama was less picky. Much less picky.
The gay thing in CA, it's not hard to understand. People are more conservative that you think. It's why Trump will win a second term.
If you look at Obama's record of liberalization, he was always in favor of same-sex marriage but had to wait until the time was right. Had he pushed it in his first term, it would have been harder to get a second term. Again, this is politics.
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Obama is muslim and hates Israel. For the first 13 years of his life, he was raised in Indonesia (a muslim country) by a strict muslim nut named Soetoro. The same-sex marriage thing is confusing. Ultra liberal California was AGAINST it.. which I still don't understand. Several states started allowing same-sex marriages, and Obama and Hillary were slow to support it. Hillary was vocally against same-sex marriage for decades, but then with no explanation did a complete flip-flop. Perhaps Obama supported same-sex marriage to give Muslim countries a reason to hate the USA. Same situation with using drones to bomb weddings and funerals.
You can't know what's going on in Obama's head, so don't assume you know what he loves and hates.
Obama had a plan to bring peace to the Middle East which involved getting strict with Israel (not unlike how Trump is getting strict with NK) and Obama later backed down, I presume because he didn't have the political capital.
I think living in Indonesia opened Obama's mind about Islam. It's not scary to him. When he grew up there Indonesia was still tolerant. The current brand of Islam wasn't there. Let me be plain: I don't think Islam fits in the West and I'd prefer people from that part of the world not immigrate to the US. But it's not my country, so I'll make a compromise that if we're allowing Muslim people that they must be real moderates or secular. If you feel your woman should wear a hijab or that the mosque must be separated by sex, you can't immigrate. Obama was less picky. Much less picky.
The gay thing in CA, it's not hard to understand. People are more conservative that you think. It's why Trump will win a second term.
If you look at Obama's record of liberalization, he was always in favor of same-sex marriage but had to wait until the time was right. Had he pushed it in his first term, it would have been harder to get a second term. Again, this is politics.
How is it possible to have PEACE with a crazy religion such as Islam? Yes, judaism and christianity are also crazy, but people don't take those religions literally anymore. I haven't noticed anybody getting stoned to death for working on the Sabbath lately. Islamic nations are still using their religion to do things like chop off hands, heads, whip people, throw people off roofs, torture, etc. It is incredible that anybody who is supposed to be a feminist (Hillary) would give any credibility to a muslim country such as Saudi Arabia (which has sharia law) by accepting endorsements / money from them.
Heres' the "Sharia Law" song being sung in London England.. which is now controlled by muslims, and has a muslim mayor. Trump can't even visit London after getting an invitation from the Queen because London is so unstable right now.
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I think living in Indonesia opened Obama's mind about Islam. It's not scary to him. When he grew up there Indonesia was still tolerant. The current brand of Islam wasn't there. Let me be plain: I don't think Islam fits in the West and I'd prefer people from that part of the world not immigrate to the US. But it's not my country, so I'll make a compromise that if we're allowing Muslim people that they must be real moderates or secular. If you feel your woman should wear a hijab or that the mosque must be separated by sex, you can't immigrate. Obama was less picky. Much less picky.
How is it possible to have PEACE with a crazy religion such as Islam? Yes, judaism and christianity are also crazy, but people don't take those religions literally anymore. I haven't noticed anybody getting stoned to death for working on the Sabbath lately. Islamic nations are still using their religion to do things like chop off hands, heads, whip people, throw people off roofs, torture, etc. It is incredible that anybody who is supposed to be a feminist (Hillary) would give any credibility to a muslim country such as Saudi Arabia (which has sharia law) by accepting endorsements / money from them.
Heres' the "Sharia Law" song being sung in London England.. which is now controlled by muslims, and has a muslim mayor. Trump can't even visit London after getting an invitation from the Queen because London is so unstable right now.
It's possible if and when Muslim people put aside the major tenants of their religions (note the plural). To me, proof of a moderate Islam is not to wear the Muslim garb, especially raising girls to cover themselves. Also, not to segregate their mosques. Do that, and I think they could more comfortably integrate.
As I said, I would prefer zero Muslim immigration but that's not going to happen. Since Islam is a major religion with one billion people practicing it, we have to get along. That responsibility falls on the shoulders of the secular and truly moderate Muslime peoples of the world and for the rest of us to push for secular governments.
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I think living in Indonesia opened Obama's mind about Islam. It's not scary to him. When he grew up there Indonesia was still tolerant. The current brand of Islam wasn't there. Let me be plain: I don't think Islam fits in the West and I'd prefer people from that part of the world not immigrate to the US. But it's not my country, so I'll make a compromise that if we're allowing Muslim people that they must be real moderates or secular. If you feel your woman should wear a hijab or that the mosque must be separated by sex, you can't immigrate. Obama was less picky. Much less picky.
How is it possible to have PEACE with a crazy religion such as Islam? Yes, judaism and christianity are also crazy, but people don't take those religions literally anymore. I haven't noticed anybody getting stoned to death for working on the Sabbath lately. Islamic nations are still using their religion to do things like chop off hands, heads, whip people, throw people off roofs, torture, etc. It is incredible that anybody who is supposed to be a feminist (Hillary) would give any credibility to a muslim country such as Saudi Arabia (which has sharia law) by accepting endorsements / money from them.
Heres' the "Sharia Law" song being sung in London England.. which is now controlled by muslims, and has a muslim mayor. Trump can't even visit London after getting an invitation from the Queen because London is so unstable right now.
It's possible if and when Muslim people put aside the major tenants of their religions (note the plural). To me, proof of a moderate Islam is not to wear the Muslim garb, especially raising girls to cover themselves. Also, not to segregate their mosques. Do that, and I think they could more comfortably integrate.
As I said, I would prefer zero Muslim immigration but that's not going to happen. Since Islam is a major religion with one billion people practicing it, we have to get along. That responsibility falls on the shoulders of the secular and truly moderate Muslime peoples of the world and for the rest of us to push for secular governments.
Islam is largely funded by OIL money, and the countries perpetuating Islam are largely OIL countries. It will be interesting to see how Islam fares now that viable alternatives to middle east oil are rapidly being developed (such as coal and fracking).
It is chilling to think that we are forced to get along and accept something just because there are so many people who adhere to some crazy ideology.
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It will be interesting to see how Islam fares now that viable alternatives to middle east oil are rapidly being developed (such as coal and fracking).
Did that wildly errant observation escape from some galactic time warp, circa 1973?
Ex-energy regulators denounce Trump bid to boost coal:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/10/23/ex-energy-regulators-reject-trump-bid-to-boost-coal-nuclear.htmlWhy Trump Can't Make Coal Great Again:
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/11/why-trump-can-t-make-coal-great-again/4 signs that Trump’s furious efforts to save coal are futile:
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/10/19/16494472/trump-coal-futilePresident Trump’s misleading claims about new mines and ‘clean coal’:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/06/07/president-trumps-misleading-claims-about-new-mines-and-clean-coal/?utm_term=.6983ea74a1b0 -
It will be interesting to see how Islam fares now that viable alternatives to middle east oil are rapidly being developed (such as coal and fracking).
Did that wildly errant observation escape from some galactic time warp, circa 1973?
Ex-energy regulators denounce Trump bid to boost coal:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/10/23/ex-energy-regulators-reject-trump-bid-to-boost-coal-nuclear.htmlWhy Trump Can't Make Coal Great Again:
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/11/why-trump-can-t-make-coal-great-again/4 signs that Trump’s furious efforts to save coal are futile:
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/10/19/16494472/trump-coal-futilePresident Trump’s misleading claims about new mines and ‘clean coal’:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/06/07/president-trumps-misleading-claims-about-new-mines-and-clean-coal/?utm_term=.6983ea74a1b0You tried executing Moonbat dirty trick #57 - ignore the full context of what you are replying to.
I said "coal AND fracking"
The POINT of my comment was to question the future of Islam in a world that is no longer a slave to their oil You ignored my point entirely.
As for coal.. There are several states that would have their economies decimated if not for coal. Obama and Hillary didn't give a damn about that, because those states don't vote democrat. The fracking people don't want to compete with coal, so they are going to do everything possible to make fracking the main alternative to oil.
I wish you would stick to the POINT of my comments instead of trying to shit on them with your obfuscation. -
Ok, so you believe that routine, scheduled mothballing of ships is somehow an emergency. Obama said he would only use NO BID contracts in an emergency. Not even GWB used no bid contracts for that.
You are trying to make it acceptable for politicians to lie to us.
If Obama had the moral high ground, then why hide what he was doing? Snowden would be a non issue if Obama kept his promise to be the most transparent President ever. Again, Obama lied his ass off.
I've pointed out Obama's history with LGBTs equality and his political career. He was willing to throw LGBTs under the bus to get the next political office. Hell, he took credit for LGBT equality in Illinois that he had nothing to do with. Sure, he did some good for LGBTs in Illinois, but only a little. He did nothing like he loves to claim. He claims things that happened before he first got elected. He claims things other people did.
If you notice, I'm only blaming Obama for Obama. I'm not pinning the global economic meltdown on him, and stuff like that.
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Ok, so you believe that routine, scheduled mothballing of ships is somehow an emergency. Obama said he would only use NO BID contracts in an emergency. Not even GWB used no bid contracts for that.
You are trying to make it acceptable for politicians to lie to us.
If Obama had the moral high ground, then why hide what he was doing? Snowden would be a non issue if Obama kept his promise to be the most transparent President ever. Again, Obama lied his ass off.
I've pointed out Obama's history with LGBTs equality and his political career. He was willing to throw LGBTs under the bus to get the next political office. Hell, he took credit for LGBT equality in Illinois that he had nothing to do with. Sure, he did some good for LGBTs in Illinois, but only a little. He did nothing like he loves to claim. He claims things that happened before he first got elected. He claims things other people did.
If you notice, I'm only blaming Obama for Obama. I'm not pinning the global economic meltdown on him, and stuff like that.
Another home run for RaphJD…
He pointed out the Snowden issue.
I will summarize Snowden's saga. Snowden started out by being the best cyber hacker imaginable. He became disillusioned and felt betrayed when his work was being used to do "bad things". When Obama started campaigning, he was spewing out what everybody wanted to hear. He was going to fix everything, end all wars, have the world getting along, peace all over, ending espionage.. etc. etc. Snowden LOVED this and was very supportive of Obama.. UNTIL.. he discovered that Obama blatantly lied.. and was the OPPOSITE of what he was portraying himself to be. Obama was doing more damage to the USA and to the world than anybody else in history.. all with the tacit approval of the media and free passes all around! Snowden had enough.. and decided to expose the TRUTH.. no matter who it implicated.
No wonder that Obama is so cozy with the Bushs these days.Meanwhile.. Jimmy Carter seems to be Trump's best friend now!
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You are trying to make it acceptable for politicians to lie to us.
If Obama had the moral high ground, then why hide what he was doing? Snowden would be a non issue if Obama kept his promise to be the most transparent President ever. Again, Obama lied his ass off.
I've pointed out Obama's history with LGBTs equality and his political career. He was willing to throw LGBTs under the bus to get the next political office. Hell, he took credit for LGBT equality in Illinois that he had nothing to do with. Sure, he did some good for LGBTs in Illinois, but only a little. He did nothing like he loves to claim. He claims things that happened before he first got elected. He claims things other people did.
I think you're being willfully ignorant of how politics works.
Obama could have promised the moon, as Trump can promise a border wall that Mexico pays for, but once he got in office he was bound by the rules of an elected official, not granted the powers of a king. To get anything done he had to work with the Senate and Congress. Do you remember how hard the Republican minorities made it for Obama to do anything? Have you noticed how hard the Republican majorities are making it for Trump? Even if Obama/Trump wanted to do x, y, and z, it wasn't/isn't theirs to do without the backing of both houses and so neither man has lied. You need to make a distinction between lying and keeping a campaign promise, two very different things.
Throwing under the bus is rhetoric because you didn't like what he did but that's politics. Do you recall the open mic when Obama was talking with one of Putin's staff? He'll be able to maneuver more after he wins the next election. For LGBT rights that's what he did, he waited till he didn't have to run before putting forth (another) (unpopular) policy.
Trump might be different. He was the first President that got in trouble for keeping his campaign promises.
