OIC soft on animal abuse
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Germany's modern pentathlon coach Kim Raisner, was suspended for 1 day for punching a horse because it failed to do a jump.
The previous day she was shown on TV whipping a horse, to show one of her team how to do it with maximum effect.
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@raphjd Punching a horse -- what an awful thing to do -- they should have booked that coach a flight home the next morning.
I'm not a horse owner and haven't spent much time around them, but I was invited to the Belmont Stakes this year and I enjoyed everything -- except the whipping of the horses, particularly down the home stretch.
Certainly it must hurt to some degree. If they prohibited whipping, wouldn't all riders still have an equal chance? It would probably mean fewer new time records, I could easily live with that.
The whipping -- it would be hard to change something that's been part of that sporting culture for centuries. But for comparison, the much worse cruelty of bullfighting is being slowly wiped off the planet, so these positive changes can be realized.
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@flozen said in OIC soft on animal abuse:
@raphjd Punching a horse -- what an awful thing to do -- they should have booked that coach a flight home the next morning.
I'm not a horse owner and haven't spent much time around them, but I was invited to the Belmont Stakes this year and I enjoyed everything -- except the whipping of the horses, particularly down the home stretch.
Certainly it must hurt to some degree. If they prohibited whipping, wouldn't all riders still have an equal chance? It would probably mean fewer new time records, I could easily live with that.
The whipping -- it would be hard to change something that's been part of that sporting culture for centuries. But for comparison, the much worse cruelty of bullfighting is being slowly wiped off the planet, so these positive changes can be realized.
I agree with both of you that animal cruelty should have no place in "SPORT" - but as someone who has ridden horses (tho certainly not in any kind of competition), I can say that there are legitimate uses for the riding crop (it's more of a flexible stick than a whip)... and within those limits, there is virtually never any injury to the horse.
Skipping ahead: sadly, as much as I'd like to agree with @flozen that Spanish-Style Bull-Fighting is "slowly being wiped off the planet", it is just not the case - and this is far from the first time the "sport" (and I use the term lightly and hesitatingly) has come under fire. (See ancient Popes & Kings in Iberia!) Unlike horse-racing, rodeo, or Olympic modern pentathlon: the bull virtually never survives, and neither is its death in anything even approaching a humane manner.
So, back to the Olympics: Let me say ahead of time that I do not agree with what the coach did, but your characterization here - without details - is more inflammatory than it deserves to be... and your castigation of the IOC (or even Tokyo Olympic Organizing Committee) is misplaced.
The sport in question here is "Modern Pentathlon" - and in this event, the horse and rider are literally introduced to each other just prior to the event. The point of the event is for the human contestant to bond with the new* horse, and complete a set of tasks in the ring.
The German rider in question here was leading in the event up to this moment, the last of 10 parts... but the horse she drew just wasn't having it! The rider was (clearly visible in the video) crying badly, and that was also upsetting the horse (making a failing situation worse, and making a horse "in trouble" literally fearful of its surroundings.
In the part of the video I saw on YouTube (from a German source, not the Twitter link above, although it is also in German), the crying rider was having GREAT difficulty controlling the horse... clearly sobbing, she was kicking and otherwise TRYING to "subdue" the upset horse. In a few seconds, it (the horse) came over to the edge of the arena - where the coach was screaming at her (the rider) to strike the horse HARD - and then, she (the coach) reached over the fence and "punched" the horse on the hind quarter. Not particularly hard, but enough to spook the horse even more.
If you know anything about horses, you have to know that at that point, the chances of that horse, in that moment, coming under full-control of that rider... was nil. Absolute nil. Had the person who struck the horse been the actual trainer or owner of the horse in question, the outcome might have been different: horses WANT to please their humans! But these two (rider and coach) were both new to the horse, and their approach/reaction by this point was just doomed.
Still, both the coach and the rider were literally watching their Olympic dreams go up in smoke - in their minds, because of this horse (side note, though not altogether germane: the horse, named Saint Boy, had reacted similarly to another rider the day before... so, there is something to be said about their Olympic Dreams being lost to the "luck of the draw"...)
Nevertheless, the coach got in trouble for many infractions:
- encouraging the rider to over-use the crop on the horse
- reaching into the arena to interfere with the horse or rider during the "ride"
- touching the horse (much less hitting it) during the "ride"
The German coach was expelled from the Tokyo Olympics for her violations - not by the IOC (because that's not how the Olympics works!), but by the UIPM - the world governing body for the sport of Modern Pentathlon.
It is the role of each sport's international governing body to "police" their events and their participants - and the UIPM did so, quickly and firmly - issuing what the sport calls a "black card" to the coach - expelling her from the entire competition, and subjecting her to "further review" by the sport aftweward.
Additionally, world-wide media outlets have been pretty tough on both the coach and the rider... who, unsurprisingly, failed to medal in spite of her lead up to that point.
So, if you watch the video, the horse was not "abused" by the "punch" of the coach, so much as by the rider and circumstances overall. It was a bad situation made worse by the humans to be sure, but the horse was not injured by the "punch" - and it clearly wasn't the intent of the coach to injure the horse - though, as someone "just a little" familiar with horses, I could legitimately ask "what was she thinking?"...
And, to also be clear: I do not support the actions of the humans in this incident... but, this is not what the original posting represented itself to be, and the blaming of the IOC (which actually does not have jurisdiction) is just plain wrong.
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I used to own a horse. I even have the tattoo of him on my arm. I never used a whip or crop.
The crop incident was on Friday and the punch was on Saturday.
I'm not sure why you are trying to justify the abuse.
The IOC does have the right to punish people. It's not just up to the governing body of that particular sport.
If you want, we can go your way and say that the UIPM is weak on animal abuse.
Ah, the "but the punch didn't cause injury" defense. Do you know how many shitty people use that defense in court?
To be clear, you supporting punching animals, as long as there are no visible injuries.
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@raphjd said in OIC soft on animal abuse:
I used to own a horse. I even have the tattoo of him on my arm. I never used a whip or crop.
The crop incident was on Friday and the punch was on Saturday.
I'm not sure why you are trying to justify the abuse.
The IOC does have the right to punish people. It's not just up to the governing body of that particular sport.
If you want, we can go your way and say that the UIPM is weak on animal abuse.
Ah, the "but the punch didn't cause injury" defense. Do you know how many shitty people use that defense in court?
To be clear, you supporting punching animals, as long as there are no visible injuries.
You have problems with reading comprehension, don't you?
So, back to the Olympics: Let me say ahead of time that I do not agree with what the coach did, but your characterization here - without details - is more inflammatory than it deserves to be... and your castigation of the IOC (or even Tokyo Olympic Organizing Committee) is misplaced.
Your owning a horse and never using a whip or a crop is an indication only that you never trained your horse in equine competition. I won't say I agree with the use of a crop (a whip would be virtually unheard of!), but again, it isn't used the way you are describing it. (Try making your argument against a REAL issue, and not a FAKE NEWS version of that issue!)
I also have a swimming pool, but I don't own a speedo bathing suit - because I don't race in my pool.
FWIW: The "crop incident" happened AFTER the "punch" incident - the rider in question wasn't on or near a horse the day before. (facts!)... watch the damned video - you can see the rider start to hit the horse with her riding crop AFTER being screamed at by her coach to do so, and AFTER her coach punched the hind quarter of the horse!
You are delusional. The IOC does NOT have the jurisdiction to penalize a non-athlete at the competition. They COULD HAVE (but WOULDN'T HAVE) overruled the UIPM with regards to the "athlete", but not the coach.
Your comment that the UIPM "went soft" on the coach is also rife with disinformation. The "black card" issued to the coach is the MAXIMUM penalty they could have applied AT THE COMPETITION. Further, there is room for further investigation later - where the "accused" will be given a chance to "defend themselves" - something your fascist-leaning ways may not be accustomed to called "due process".
And, I will reiterate that your original claim that there was a 1-day suspension of the coach is hogwash and totally false. She was issued a black-card - expelling her from the competition - the maximum penalty allowed under the rules. Of course, in your more fascist-leaning ways, the firing squad option was just not available.
Finally, WRT the "damage" done to the horse by the "punch" - watch the damned video. [mike drop].
I do not support hitting animals - but I also understand that animals in this particular environment are currently controlled by striking them with a riding crop... something humans have been doing to horses for millennia. That doesn't mean it shouldn't end, but tell me - do you really think kicking your heels into the side of your horse wasn't uncomfortable? -
I do not support hitting animals
But you keep defending and downplaying it.
Humans have been doing a lot of things for millennia, does that make those ok too?
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The reports I have read was that the crop thing was on Friday with a different team member.
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@raphjd said in OIC soft on animal abuse:
The reports I have read was that the crop thing was on Friday with a different team member.
I have not heard of other incidents - from the same coach?
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@raphjd said in OIC soft on animal abuse:
I do not support hitting animals
But you keep defending and downplaying it.
Humans have been doing a lot of things for millennia, does that make those ok too?
If you mean to ask: Do you dislike hitting animals enough to make shit up about the IOC and the German coach accused of hitting a horse?
No
I do dislike the fact that animals are being abused - still - in 2021, but not so much that I'd overlook my own, personal, moral code (about lying and misrepresenting things) to stop it.
Rather, I have faith that real data - not hyper-sensationalized, and not factually invalid data - as well as a real sense of moral outrage - are sufficient to help put a stop to it.
Indeed, I believe that using false and/or or grossly exaggerated information actually hurts the cause: because it gives real and valid "ammunition" to the perpetrators to deny their actions!
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You also believe, from your previous posts that it's not wrong to abuse animals, if there are no obvious injuries.
YES, the Friday incident is supposed to be the same person.
