M2F trans problem
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Friend of mine recently started a relationship with a trans who was born male, but started on hormones as a child - and never went through puberty, leaving "him" with a dick that does not get hard - which I suspect is a permanent condition because the estrogen therapy began BEFORE puberty.
Anyway, this trans is now in "her" 20's, and does have significant breast tissue which look like cones instead of breasts. The thing I wonder about is "her" abdoment, which has rolls of flab. I think this may be a common problem for males taking estrogen. To gain breast tissue, they take mega doses of estrogen, but as a side effect, they also get a lot of unwanted tissue (the rolls of abdominal fat).
Am I correct about this?I suppose the options are don't take hormones, and have a flat chest
Get artificial breast implants
Take hormones and get conical breasts and abdominal flab. -
@lololulu19 said in M2F trans problem:
Friend of mine recently started a relationship with a trans who was born male, but started on hormones as a child - and never went through puberty
@lololulu19 This trans individual would still have gone through puberty in some form, which—given your description—sounds like was having its course steered to avoid the virilising changes that happen during male puberty with a view to having her go through a female (i.e. feminising) puberty instead.
leaving "him" with a dick that does not get hard - which I suspect is a permanent condition
Her penis probably remains in its prepubertal (i.e. undeveloped) state, along with hypogonadic (undeveloped) testes, unless these have been removed. Erections—while being pretty darn useful for men who generally do enjoy using them to for sexual purposes—occur most often for other physiological reasons other than sexual arousal, and the penis becomes erectile (i.e. capable of becoming erect) as soon as it is fully formed inside the womb. Thus, they occur perfectly normally in babies, toddlers, and prepubescent boys, and only during puberty when testosterone floods the system does the penis start getting erect in response to sexual arousal or physical stimulation. So, her penis may resemble that of a child's, which may occasionally stiffen while asleep, but won't function sexually by virtue of it not being (i.e. not having developed into) a sexual organ (this doesn't imply an inability to feel pleasure through stimulation, and although the glans is more sensitive when engorged, it's sensitive to pleasure/pain at all times, particularly if uncircumcised).
I would hazard a guess that this is less of a "condition" (it's not an ailment in the way it would be most men, nor was it unforeseen) and probably more of a feature (which your friend and his partner may feel completely indifferent about, or find it sexually appealing).
Anyway, this trans is now in "her" 20's, and does have significant breast tissue which look like cones instead of breasts.
Breast development is something that would certainly have been somewhat stagnated had she undergone male puberty. This is the case for most transwomen who commence hormone therapy in later life, which induces limited gynaecomastia, while their larger (male) rib cages and broader shoulders would make even fully-formed breasts appear disproportionately small (thus they will typically require surgical implants to achieve convincing breasts, as no amount of female hormones will accomplish this in a post-pubertal male).
But, assuming your friend's partner was spared male puberty, and had hormones introduced at the pubertal stage as you stated, full breast development ought to have been possible. From your description (have you seen them yourself?), they sound more characteristic of breast buds, which are indicative of limited gynaecomastia, suggesting that either she did not receive hormones as early as you've been told; or that the hormones were incorrectly prescribed/dosed; or she was administered the hormones in an unreliable/inconsistent manner by (presumably) her parents; or she underwent at least some concurrent virilisation in adolescence. If her penis didn't remain prepubescent in size, then it's likely some virilisation took place due to incomplete testosterone suppression during adolescence. Virilisation can also occur (at any age, but adolescence would be the critical age here) due to endocrine (?adrenal) disorders, which can affect physical development (including that of breasts) in otherwise healthy pubescent girls.
It's also worthwhile to remember that the size and shapes of breasts in normal, healthy women varies hugely, and the breasts of this transwoman may not resemble any of those we get exposed to on the [extremely limited range of] female bodies presented in the media, while perhaps would still be considered entirely normal when compared to the general female population.
The thing I wonder about is "her" abdoment, which has rolls of flab. I think this may be a common problem for males taking estrogen. To gain breast tissue, they take mega doses of estrogen, but as a side effect, they also get a lot of unwanted tissue (the rolls of abdominal fat).
Am I correct about this?Her abdominal fat is not a side-effect of oestrogen, which would actually cause redistribution of fat away from the waist to the thighs, buttocks, hips, and breasts. Men accumulate fat in the abdominal area naturally (i.e. in the absence of oestrogen). Women naturally have a higher proportion of body fat than men, and this will also be the case (eventually) for both men and transwomen taking oestrogen, depending on the extent of testosterone suppression. Your friend's partner should have morphological proportions/anthropometrics in line with those of a regular female (with the exception of external genitalia), and if this doesn't appear to be the case—and assuming, once again, this isn't down to our expectations of what normal female bodies should look like according to media representations versus what actual female bodies can and do look like—the same considerations as above apply.
estrogen therapy began BEFORE puberty.
What country do you live in ? I know you stated that she was commenced on oestrogen therapy before puberty, but I'm going to assume you meant to say at puberty. Even in girls, there's a sharp rise in testosterone production first during the initial stages of puberty, after which the female hormones then take over. Therefore, there would be no need nor reason to start hormone therapy prior to the onset of puberty.
I suppose the options are don't take hormones, and have a flat chest
Get artificial breast implants
Take hormones and get conical breasts and abdominal flab.because theIf this trans individual was commenced on hormones once puberty started, then the goal was clearly to ensure she underwent puberty as a female (hormonally-speaking) without the virilising changes that boys go through (after which, the options become—as you said—to avoid hormones and only transition socially, or take hormones and end up looking like Quagmire's dad).
I suppose the options are don't take hormones, and have a flat chest
Get artificial breast implants
Take hormones and get conical breasts and abdominal flab.because theBy all accounts, it should have been possible for this individual to go through life with no one other than immediate family, doctors, and sexual partners to ever suspect she was anything other than female with an XX genotype, and, indeed, there are transwomen from back in the day when the post-pubertal transitioners were called transsexuals, while the boys who went through puberty as girls were ultimately just called women (not in the political sense of "transwomen are women", but by virtue of being physically indistinguishable from women until someone tries to grab them by the pussy).
But, if you're suggesting that your friend's partner has a number of features that aren't convincingly female in appearance such as under-developed breasts (although a pendulous nutsack, a hairy anus, or Olympic Gold medals in the women's triathlon are also dead giveaways)—and she isn't simply both fat and small-breasted—then either her transition commenced some time into or after male puberty, or there was/is something else affecting her to which you're not privy, such as an hyperandrogenic endocrine disorder secondary to medications (not oestrogen), tumours, chromosomal/genetic abnormalities, and lots of other possible causes. Her being trans may not be the cause of or be related to these things at all, although being trans would undoubtedly have made detecting hyperandrogenic conditions more difficult: visible signs would have been attributed by lazy doctors to virilising effects of incomplete testosterone suppression; any other adolescent girl or fully grown woman would be investigated to find the cause; and these things would be noticed much earlier if there was a vagina and menstrual cycle that get noticeably affected before everything else.
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@sNr-0 you are a smart AND funny guy. You pretty much hit the nose on everything. I have seen the tits of the trans. They have no breast shape, they are just like rounded off pyramids. I know that trans goes to a psychiatrist, and flips from being overly nice to quite nasty and vindictive towards absolute strangers for no reason. Extremely unstable. I think that condition might be called "borderline'? The trans has been forcing my friend to alter his life entirely, and he went along with it... but.. the demands kept on piling up, and nothing my friend could do or say seemed to satisfy the trans need to be in 100% control of him. I think they have either broken up, or are inevitably going to break up soon. If I see what that trans has for genetalia, I will let you know, because you did such a thorough job responding to me.
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@sNr-0 what you think of these tits?
female real?
male with estrogen since very young?
male with implants?
I should add.. this person was quite flat-chested until a couple of years ago.
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@lololulu19 said in M2F trans problem:
To me, they look like normal breasts on a young, adult female.
What's the correct answer ? I feel like this could be an entire gameshow: “Boobs or Moobs”, where contestants have to guess whether they're looking at a pair of women's breasts, or a guy who drinks 10 cans of lager every night.
I have seen the tits of the trans. They have no breast shape, they are just like rounded off pyramids.
Some girls have fairly pyramidal bosoms as well, but who knows ? I guess if your friend's partner is displeased, she can elect to have surgical enhancements.
I know that trans goes to a psychiatrist, and flips from being overly nice to quite nasty and vindictive towards absolute strangers for no reason. Extremely unstable. I think that condition might be called "borderline'?
Yeah, borderline personality disorder (also called emotionally unstable personality disorder) can certainly manifest in this manner. It usually suggests (although not always) that there's been some history of childhood physical or sexual abuse. The disorder makes a person view things in very black-and-white terms, including people, meaning that either you'll be seen as someone on their side for which they'll adore you unendingly; or you'll be regarded like an enemy, and they'll despise you. But their assessment of you can change minute-to-minute. Essentially, they struggle with issues of abandonment, issues of mistrust, and have a fluctuating ability to empathise cognitively with others, while often tending to overly empathise emotionally, which they can weaponise in order to "manipulate" others. This is usually done on the subconscious level, and is a learned behaviour used as a survival mechanism rather than a Machiavellian intent fuelled by a desire to fuck people over, although that is still a common outcome from the perspective of those on the receiving end of this.
The trans has been forcing my friend to alter his life entirely, and he went along with it... but.. the demands kept on piling up, and nothing my friend could do or say seemed to satisfy the trans need to be in 100% control of him.
This sounds like a separate behaviour, as it's not classically how borderlines approach their romantic relationships, which rarely, if ever, end up going the way they want.
It sounds a lot more like narcissistic behaviour, the exact nature of which will depend on (or determine) how she exerts her control over her partner.
Regardless of the specifics, though, it sounds like your friend is in an abusive relationship, which he may need help seeing, and subsequently getting out of.
I think they have either broken up, or are inevitably going to break up soon.
OK. As long as your friend is sure he won't incur any revenge-type behaviour later. If she's the one ending the relationship, that's more encouraging.
If I see what that trans has for genetalia, I will let you know, because you did such a thorough job responding to me.
Don't do this on my account. I don't think you want to put yourself in her crosshairs, by the sounds of it.
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@sNr-0 I was truly encouraging the relationship from the start. I am still encouraging the relationship - only now I am only pretending to be encouraging it. The trans posted some extremely ignorant and hostile comments about other specific people and groups of people. Using an anonymous account, I messaged the trans, saying "you are pretty". I did that to get a response which allows me to see when the trans is online. The response I got shocked me. The trans responded with "Fuck you! How dare you post a comment on my public profile. You are deplorable!" It looks like the classic tactic of a female in which they try to sever ties between their boyfriend and the boyfriend's friends and family and anybody that the guy is associated with. I do not want to see my friend get hurt. Trans has already forced him to get rid of certain collectible items, change the music he listens to, basically take control of his life completely. The trans is forcing him to leave his job and move 150 miles away in a couple of months. This relationship needs to end before my friend destroys his life. Currently, the trans has stopped speaking to my friend as punishment for something I am not aware of. In a nutshell, the trans seems to have a mentality of "fuck the entire world, just give me what I want" which is typical of trans people.
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@sNr-0 to me, they look like breasts of a young GIRL who is not sexually mature. Breasts that are induced by estrogen and not by biology. Those do not look like the breasts of a 24 year old woman to me.