NYC announces Covid-19 vaccine mandate with no testing opt out
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Source: https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/23/us/nyc-vaccine-mandate-teachers/index.html
It will come as a surprise to some that I think this is overreach, although it does appear near the bottom of the story that exceptions for medical issues may be offered.
I don't object to requiring COVID-19 vaccination for employees who interact with others (e.g.: the public - especially children), but there almost always have to be exceptions of some kind...
There has to be a balance between legitimate public health needs, the wishes and beliefs of employees, and those same employees' own health! Failure to accommodate special cases is egregious... on all sides!
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Hmm, I'll have to check your account to see if it's been hacked.
The medical exemption talk was about negotiating with unions over the vaccine mandate.
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@raphjd said in NYC announces Covid-19 vaccine mandate with no testing opt out:
Hmm, I'll have to check your account to see if it's been hacked.
The medical exemption talk was about negotiating with unions over the vaccine mandate.
Yeah, well that's the thing with Union contracts - virtually any change to the workplace has to be negotiated...
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The union negotiations were with government employee unions, not the run-of-the-mill workers.
Must be nice to have special rights.
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@raphjd said in NYC announces Covid-19 vaccine mandate with no testing opt out:
The union negotiations were with government employee unions, not the run-of-the-mill workers.
Must be nice to have special rights.
Special? Nope - just negotiated rights. Contracts.... While I'm not in a union, my employment is via contract... and if MY employer wants to change the nature of my workplace, I have the right to object...
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Still, special rights when it can be forced on some but not others.
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@raphjd said in NYC announces Covid-19 vaccine mandate with no testing opt out:
Still, special rights when it can be forced on some but not others.
I see... so when you drive drunk and cause, say, US$40K in damages, and you "get off, scot-free" because you have insurance... but someone who DIDN'T have insurance would have to pay it out-of-pocket... is that a "special privilege"?
Or, is it just something that's been bought and paid for?
My "special rights" are negotiated with my employer and codified in a contract. You have the RIGHT to do the same with YOUR employer... that you do not is simply a reflection of your negligent preparation for protecting yourself - akin to driving without insurance!
OK, so maybe your current employer wouldn't accept hiring you under a written contract... but you could always look for one who DID! Maybe a UNION job! ROFL!
PS: No, I'm not in a union - I'm a consultant... all of my "employment arrangements" are by contract... it's just the way I run my business!
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LOL, gotta love the crackhead examples.
Vaccine mandates that aren't vaccine mandates for certain people, is special rights for those that don't have to abide the vaccine mandate.
Also, as a "libertarian", shouldn't you support forced vaccinations for all?
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@raphjd said in NYC announces Covid-19 vaccine mandate with no testing opt out:
LOL, gotta love the crackhead examples.
Vaccine mandates that aren't vaccine mandates for certain people, is special rights for those that don't have to abide the vaccine mandate.
Also, as a "libertarian", shouldn't you support forced vaccinations for all?
Again: what special rights? EVERYONE (with some few medical exemptions meeted out by physicians) needs to get the vaccine. Rich people need to get it! Poor people need to get it! (Here in the US, they are FREE... to ALL... even ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!)
As for my libertarian-ism, I think you have Libertarian confused with Anarchist!
I believe people have the right to live as they want to live, dance to their own tune... but there are limitations:
- You don't have the right to live in a community, but NOT connect your home to the sewage system...
- You don't have the right to build your own "vehicle" and drive it (with a max speed of about 10 Kph) on the highway
- You don't have the right to jerk off into a bottle and then sell it as a COVID-19 cure!
And, you don't have the right to endanger all of your neighbors because you believe some nutjob on the Internet who says the COVID-19 vaccine will magnetize your skin! Enough of you, and you (together) endanger all of humanity! (think: epidemiology ain't Rocket Science!)
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Gov employees have special rights due to their unions. Vaccine mandates for thee, but not for me.
You are a selective libertarian. Other times you are an authoritarian. You remind me of Antifa.
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@raphjd said in NYC announces Covid-19 vaccine mandate with no testing opt out:
Gov employees have special rights due to their unions. Vaccine mandates for thee, but not for me.
Government employees have special rights because they work under a CONTRACT. Yes, that contract is negotiated by a union, but you imply that ONLY unionized employees have contractual protections... and I have already shown that is false. LOTS of other employees work under contracts. Some of those contracts work more to protect the employee, but some also work more to protect the employer!
Case in point here in the US: When you go to the ER in most areas of the US, you will not EVER be seen by a Dr that is employed by the Hospital. ALL of the physicians (and in some areas, even all of the nurses) are independent contractors "hired" by the Hospital to staff the ER under contracts that protect the Hospital from torts, leaving the medical personnel personally and solely responsible for any legal responsibility. You agree to this when you sign the "authorization to treat" form (which, by the way, is a contract).
You are a selective libertarian. Other times you are an authoritarian. You remind me of Antifa.
You silly twit... of course there are limits to personal rights!
I don't believe in murder, but should I find myself being attacked by 3 armed people - and I happen to have a gun - you can bet I will not hesitate to protect myself... lethally! By your standards, that makes me a "selective murderer"... Thankfully, I don't (and as far as I can tell, not even one person does) even attempt to live by your absurd standards.
Honestly, I find your "brand" of Conservatism to be "Convenient Conservatism"... you're a Conservative when it is convenient to you, but when it comes to things like business rights, public health, or - say - work contracts... not so much!
I'm not sure how you can continue to rail against vaccines... your God has told you to get the vaccine!
"I would recommend it," Mr Trump said during an interview on Fox News Primetime on Tuesday. "I would recommend it to a lot of people that don't want to get it and a lot of those people voted for me, frankly." He added: "It's a great vaccine, it's a safe vaccine and it's something that works." - Donald J Trump in Alabama on Fox news, Tuesday, Aug 24, 2021
Mic drop. Your Personal Savior of all that is Good has spoken. Stop arguing about the bullshit you find on the Internet (like vaccines causing magnetism, or having computer chips in them, altering your DNA, or killing more people than the disease itself)... and take the damned shot!
BTW: When the FDA announced full approval of Pfizer's vaccine, they also addressed the issue with some children having reactions including slight myocarditis and/or pericarditis: in those instances, virtually ALL of the affected children recovered fully without treatment. There remains a warning for physicians to watch out for it (because it IS necessary to monitor it), but there have been ZERO fatalities from it, NOR has there been a single case where there has been permanent heart damage.
Damn dude! Your house of tissue-paper cards about how this whole COVID thing is a lie and the vaccines are evil is falling apart REALLY fast!
You should see a chiropractor for that whiplash!
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The NYC vaccine mandate has nothing to do with your contract unless you work for the city. Private businesses have to obey the mandate, so fuck your private contract.
Your version of libertarianism is lockstep in the hivemind. Stalin would be proud of you.
No one is talking about murdering people, except you lunatics.
I am fully vaccinated, under Scottish rules, for about another week when I am no longer fully vaccinated. YOR GODS keep moving the goalposts and taking our rights away more and more and you are happy with that since you are a "libertarian".
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@raphjd said in NYC announces Covid-19 vaccine mandate with no testing opt out:
The NYC vaccine mandate has nothing to do with your contract unless you work for the city. Private businesses have to obey the mandate, so fuck your private contract.
As usual, you want to spread a single-case argument to a broad-spectrum one... until your broad spectrum argument falls to pieces, then you want to bring it back to the specific.
Still: Contract law is contract law. There are plenty of businesses in NYC that cannot enforce the vaccine mandate without consulting with - and getting a buy-in from - their own unions and other contracted employees.
How many performers are in NYC? TV, Movies, Broadway? Virtually EVERYONE employed in that field is there on a contract basis (vs. traditional employment)... if the vaccine requirement goes against their contract, it cannot be enforced by the employer. City ordinances cannot (usually) void contracts.
Your version of libertarianism is lockstep in the hivemind. Stalin would be proud of you.
Your abilities in logic are equally astounding. Winnie-the-Pooh must be proud of you, too!
No one is talking about murdering people, except you lunatics.
Using comparative examples and allegory exceed your mental capabilities... I'll keep that in mind.
How's this:
Trump says: "The vaccine is good! You should take it!"
You say: "The vaccine is bad"
You are anti-Trump
You are a moronI am fully vaccinated, under Scottish rules, for about another week when I am no longer fully vaccinated. YOR GODS keep moving the goalposts and taking our rights away more and more and you are happy with that since you are a "libertarian".
This is exactly why I've said from the beginning that these "vaccine passports" are a ridiculous idea! The "goalposts" will continue to move! This virus is only known-to-man for less-than-2-years now... and it's changing right under our noses - literally while we watch it!
What hubris to expect "science" to fully understand it already and have all the answers!
What we have right now is a tiny drop of collected data (less than 2-years worth) and a population that insists that science share its initial guesses (ok, hypotheses) about it... and then gets all pissy when some of those hypotheses get proven wrong!
More data = better science
Remember when we thought it was spread on surfaces? Wipe everything down with antiseptic wipes? Wear gloves when you go shopping? Leave your groceries in the garage to kill the potential virus first? No need to wear a mask because the virus was on the surfaces, not in the air!.... OOPS! They were wrong! Turns out, the virus does NOT live for very long on surfaces, and the skin on our hands and feet do a FINE job of protecting us from what DOES survive on surfaces! Instead, this damned thing is EXACTLY what they initially said it wasn't: an AIRBORNE virus! And masks ARE needed, but gloves and antiseptic wipes not so much.
You see that as a failure. I see that as "progress of knowledge" as a result of more data!
More data = better science
But, more data takes time. Time = deaths. Death of loved ones and people we know, not just statistics.
So, we're doing the best we can, trying to save everyone we can... with the limited knowledge we have, but continue to strive to learn more... but of course, some people don't WANT saving! At least not until they're on a respirator, face down in a hospital bed in a corridor, gasping for each breath, and hearing the Grim Reaper coming thru the door & wondering if it's their turn... THEN they ask if they can get the vaccine!
But as time moves on, WE WILL LEARN MORE! And that means the "hypotheses" will change, and that means the recommendations will change. (God help us if the guidance on wearing masks changes again! Your F--ing head would explode!)
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Umm, it's your lord and saviour that should know all about C-19, after all he's done with it.
GOFR is worth a global pandemic or 2, is what he said and here we are.
Bat Lady, Fauci and Bill Gate's Eco-Health should all know about this virus.
Coronavirus is one of the 3 oldest virus types on the planet. It's been affecting humans (mammals, in general) since we came into existence.
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@raphjd said in NYC announces Covid-19 vaccine mandate with no testing opt out:
Umm, it's your lord and saviour that should know all about C-19, after all he's done with it.
GOFR is worth a global pandemic or 2, is what he said and here we are.
Bat Lady, Fauci and Bill Gate's Eco-Health should all know about this virus.
Coronavirus is one of the 3 oldest virus types on the planet. It's been affecting humans (mammals, in general) since we came into existence.
There you go again - showing your absolute ignorance!
Using your logic (actually, lack thereof) we should know all about the Universe - every star in existence! After all, we've been looking at one since before we were bipedal!
Ask a vet if you can treat a Yorkie the same as you can a Great Dane! But they're both DOGS! We should know all there is to know about DOGS!
Coronavirus is a KIND of virus, not a specific one. This one is (shocking to you, i'm sure) NEW! What's more, it's mutating QUICKLY! (it looked like a tadpole last year, but a frog this year, and we're afraid it might look like a snaggle-toothed mammal next year!)
Darwin? Paging Dr. Darwin! Over here please!
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You are a total ass clown.
No fucking shit that Coronavirus is a type of virus, you twat.
If you paid attention to what I say, you would know I've talked about the various specific viruses under it.
You are such a dickhead that you need to fight because I am attacking your lord and savior who is responsible for this shit and you are butt hurt that I'm bringing it up.
GOFR is worth a global pandemic or 2 said Fauci, and look where we are now.
I don't know how you can have your head up his ass and your own ass at the same time.
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@raphjd said in NYC announces Covid-19 vaccine mandate with no testing opt out:
You are a total ass clown.
No fucking shit that Coronavirus is a type of virus, you twat.
If you paid attention to what I say, you would know I've talked about the various specific viruses under it.
You are such a dickhead that you need to fight because I am attacking your lord and savior who is responsible for this shit and you are butt hurt that I'm bringing it up.
GOFR is worth a global pandemic or 2 said Fauci, and look where we are now.
I don't know how you can have your head up his ass and your own ass at the same time.
I know your simplistic view of the world - where, like in the James Bond movies, there are clearly Good Guys (who do only good things) & Bad Guys (who do only bad things) & everything falls neatly into Good or Bad - makes you feel like you can get a handle on these things, but REAL LIFE isn't like that.
I've met tens-of-thousands (maybe even 100,000) people in my life, and I've NEVER met someone who was all good or all evil.
And you didn't call COVID-19 "just a virus" and imply we should already know everything about it... no you said:
Coronavirus is one of the 3 oldest virus types on the planet. It's been affecting humans (mammals, in general) since we came into existence.
But "coronavirus" is to "virus" like "dog" is to "mammal"... that we know that there are coronaviruses (and dogs) doesn't mean we know all about all of them. FYI: Influenza and the "common cold virus"es (there isn't just 1 common cold virus) are also coronaviruses!
However, the dog/virus analogy breaks down when we talk about mutations. Viruses are EXTREMELY SIMPLE organisms, so small changes in the genetic makeup can result in HUGE changes in the behavior and capabilities of the virus. Dogs are complex organisms, and most genetic mutations have little affect on the overall behavior and capabilities of the dog.
COVID-19 is new - and technically, each of these new VARIANTS could technically be called new viruses... COVID-20, COVID-20a and so on... but these labels are for "regular people" like you and me - scientists have their own, different, names for each of them...
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You clearly think highly of Dr. Fauci - because you've chosen him to be your Covid-19 boogey man! And since I routinely call you out on your false and misleading posts, you assume that if I am "bad" (because I oppose your methods, if not sometimes also your ideas) and Fauci is "bad" - why then we must be collaborators (all the bad guys team up!) and that I must support Fauci in all things!
You're absolutely SILLY in your child-mind that way...
Dr. Fauci is an EXPERT in the field of immunology... that's all. He's not an authority, he's not a ruler, and he's not an autocrat... he's just a scientist, although he personally hasn't done scientific research HIMSELF in decades because he LEADS the department. Fauci doesn't control the virus (and didn't make it). His being an expert just means that people who know a lot about these things (which would NOT include you or me!) believe he knows a LOT about those fields, and they often seek (and often FOLLOW) his advise about them...
I happen to be an EXPERT in the fields of computer infrastructure and security (several published articles and other papers in the real world)... that doesn't mean I control anything or anyone, it just means people acknowledge that I know a LOT about those fields, and they often seek (and often FOLLOW) my advise about them...
Dr. Fauci isn't always right - even about immunology - any more than I am always right - even about computer security! We both are just human beings... not boogey-men, and not super-villeins ... just people, albeit people who know more than you about some things.
FWIW: Even if you're not an EXPERT in some field, I'm pretty sure that there are subjects you know more than I do (or Fauci does)... the more I have learned in life, the more I have realized that I know very little about most things, and a LOT about only a very few things!
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Why are you trying to tell me shit I already know and have posted several times?
Coronavirus is one of the 3 oldest VIRUS TYPES (you ass clown) on the planet.
Either you are just a combative old twat who needs to lie about what I have said, through various discussions, or you have the memory of a gnat.
Get your head out of Fauci's ass.
C-19 is new because Bat Lady collected the samples in 2009 and Eco-Health, thanks to funding via Fauci, did GOFR on it.
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@raphjd said in NYC announces Covid-19 vaccine mandate with no testing opt out:
Why are you trying to tell me shit I already know and have posted several times?
Coronavirus is one of the 3 oldest VIRUS TYPES (you ass clown) on the planet.
Either you are just a combative old twat who needs to lie about what I have said, through various discussions, or you have the memory of a gnat.
Get your head out of Fauci's ass.
C-19 is new because Bat Lady collected the samples in 2009 and Eco-Health, thanks to funding via Fauci, did GOFR on it.
now you're just repeating stuff I've already explained is ridiculously misstated to the point of absurdity. Let's move on...
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You "explained" shit I have said repeatedly over the last year because you are an ignorant douchebag.
You are just a combative old twat.
