Reloading files in larger or smaller collections
-
This has come up in a couple of different topics recently but merits its own discussion.
People can combine movies already available here in a collector's package. People can take one or two movies from a large package and upload them separately.
First question, is this a loophole in the rules that should be closed? Second question, is this something that is useful for the downloader?
Recently someone asked about uploading a file with around a 1,000 movies that might include underage. He didn't want to go through the file that he was planning on uploading to know what was in it because 'who wants to bother checking the content of 1,000 movies.' There are some enormous collections that are useful and other collections that are very repetitious.
Myself, I don't want to download a file with 11 movies I already have, plus ten movies I don't want, in order to get the one movie I do want. If there is a single movie that doesn't exist elsewhere I'd be fine with someone else taking it from the large package in posting it as a separate file. But I can see how that would be poaching.
On the other hand, some studios put out movie series that make sense to have as a single package. It also can be useful to have all the movies with the same performer or the same director in a single file.
What are other people's thoughts on the ethics of this?
BTW, I think it's an unrealistic expectation for the already overworked and unpaid moderators to have yet more work in flagging a new category of problematic videos,
-
I think you and I have much the same perspective. Here are a few related thoughts:
If people are re-uploading material that is already seeding (same resolution, same file type, etc.), I think there should be a good reason for doing so, and the uploader should be clear about this. For example, there are lots of torrents from the BelAmi studio with different actors in them. If somebody has a favourite actor, perhaps it makes sense to upload a collection of films having just that actor. In this case, I think the uploader should say, "this material is already here [and possibly give links to it], and I've kept the original file names so you can avoid duplicates."
If, though, someone is just grabbing a few existing files and reuploading them, especially with few (if any) pictures and a crappy (or no) description, solely for the purpose of scoring upload traffic, it's abusive. I don't think the site's software can be tweaked to prevent this, so it would seem to be a loophole. These garbage torrents are often quite obviously garbage…and they've become more prevalent in recent months. It baffles me to see that quite a few members will download them.
On another note, the reference to potentially underage material is troubling: If someone is going to share files, I think he has an absolute responsibility to ensure that there isn't underage material in them. Not wanting to "bother checking 1000 files" is highly irresponsible. Possession of underage material is a serious crime in most countries, and sharing such material puts other members, and the site itself, at grave risk. If a member does share underage material, perhaps he should get one warning, but a repeat offender should be permanently banned.
And for yet another note, I sense that some members don't realise that they can select which files they want to download from a collection. I use uTorrent, and it's a simple matter of ticking/unticking the box next to the file name before the client begins the download. That way, I can often avoid downloading material I already have, or carefully select material that I want and avoid stuff I don't. This presumes, though, that the uploader is using good file names. Sites such as Tumblr or XTube often have random letters and numbers to identify the files. It would nice if an uploader put in a more descriptive title, but that's probably expecting too much.
-
I have been noticing lately as well new torrents going up where it is obvious they are taking already uploaded and torrents but adding one or two others from other ones as well. It does feel like a loophole for the new uploader but have no clue on how stop and or monitor it.
The other issue I have seen lately(more than usual) is the amount of files avoiding the name in description and file name. I love a challenge in trying to figure them out to report if duplicate but becoming more and more difficult. The other thing is when reporting a duplicate I never know if it has already been reported prior and don't want to give the Mods even more work then they already have.
-
Recently someone asked about uploading a file with around a 1,000 movies that might include underage. He didn't want to go through the file that he was planning on uploading to know what was in it because 'who wants to bother checking the content of 1,000 movies.'
In his defense, he asked about it first and then immediately decided not to do it when there was pushback. My initial reaction was negative but no harm was done and it raised the issue for discussion, which is a good thing.
BTW, I think it's an unrealistic expectation for the already overworked and unpaid moderators to have yet more work in flagging a new category of problematic videos,
Members flag them and mods investigate the reports. The last couple of duplicate torrents I reported didn't get removed, but there were some minor differences such as photos added to one torrent even though my interpretation of the rules was that they were not allowed, so maybe the investigating mod didn't agree. The mods seem to rightly err on the side of leniency when intentions are good. Just the fact that the side is moderated at all should appreciated!
Duplicate torrents are a problem and demonstrate either sloppiness or deliberate rule-breaking. Most of the time, it is probably the former and as someone recently pointed out on another thread, this site is fairly complicated, with lots of features, rules, FAQs, information pages, boards, stickied threads, etc. For instance, apparently first-time posters in the forum aren't allowed to request specific videos on the boards intended for that, so they often post their requests on this particular meta board instead, out of place.
The worse problem in my opinion is torrents with the wrong title, a poor description (HAWT!) or no description, few or no photos, plus begging for bonus points and especially when it's done so in a deceptive manner. (Seed bonus needed so I can continue to upload this type of torrent!)
Those sloppy torrents also seem to be duplicate torrents more often than torrents with a page with lots of information.
-
Duplicate torrents are a problem and demonstrate either sloppiness or deliberate rule-breaking.
To be fair about uploading duplicate movies.
I don't upload that much since virtually all of the movies I get are from here. But I had uploaded a duplicate once - after having searched the site under the name of the movie, the name of each of the performers, and the name of the studio - there had been a previously uploaded file a few years before under a made up name with no information on the performers or the studio.
-
We can debate the ethics of this all day, but I think it comes down to how the website can efficiently and effectively moderate these packs (and I do believe this is an interesting philosophical discussion on the value of torrents.
But more pragmatically:
1. Where should a moderator draw the line to say that one pack contains too much redundancy and one pack doesn't?2. Where should a moderator draw the line to say that one pack is unique enough versus one pack doesn't contain enough focus?
3. How do you consistently apply this to both new and old torrents?
4. Will this cause a chilling effect on the pool of uploaders who are trying to get seedbonus?
5. What's the punishment for doing so? Should it be less severe than uploading a clearly duplicate or fraudulent torrent?
-
So, with these questions.
1/ There are already guidelines in place concerning loading files. I believe a file has to be less than 99% identical to another file.
2/ The problematic files tend to have more than one problem. They might not have a good description of what files are available or have the accurate pictures pertaining to the file. There have been a few large files where the uploader has disappeared leaving all the downloaders with unfinished downloads. (There's one file of about 5 GB I started during the Freeleech that is still at 32%)
I've reported a couple of files for this problem, massive uploads of scores of files without pictures or descriptions.
3/ That's what a Grandfather clause is for. Say after a certain date new rules apply to new files. Similar to the rules around safe sex in Vintage videos.
4/ Will it cause a chilling effect? Well, the intent is to have a chilling effect IF there are people abusing the system. Is it a problem or just an annoyance? Are there already rules in place that could be enforced? I'll give an example: one of the files I have has 45 vintage movies in it. I really don't want all of them. What if five of them are not on gaytorrent as individual files? I wouldn't mind uploading each of them as separate files that other people might enjoy but since 100% of each file is already on the site would they be taken down?
5/ AS I said in the original message, I think the moderators already have enough work that they shouldn't have to do more. If something gets flagged as a problem, and it clearly violates the rules, it can be taken down. If the same person does it over and over and over and over they are likely causing other problems. -
Duplicate torrents are a problem and demonstrate either sloppiness or deliberate rule-breaking.
To be fair about uploading duplicate movies.
I don't upload that much since virtually all of the movies I get are from here. But I had uploaded a duplicate once - after having searched the site under the name of the movie, the name of each of the performers, and the name of the studio - there had been a previously uploaded file a few years before under a made up name with no information on the performers or the studio.
Same here, I got nailed for a duplicate. A torrent I wanted was dead, so I found it somewhere else and uploaded it here and it was reported as a duplicate. The correct way to handle that situation is to ask a moderator to run some tests to see if the torrent is truly dead. If it is, they mod will give you permission to upload it.
In your situation, where the original file was not properly labelled, a moderator might have been able to take down the first torrent if it didn't meet the rules. I don't think they would penalize you in that situation if you made a good faith effort to check for duplicates and found none because the original torrent was not documented correctly.
-
I didn't get penalized, they just took down the torrent.
