Jump-on / re-seed during new uploads
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because this tracker has strict and hard ratio demands, we need a system for all users, not only for uploaders. while fast uplinks are still rare (compared to growing fast downloads), it's not that easy to make a system which would suit all users
we had many internal (staff) discussions about this topic, and still are not able to come to a concrete solution.previously i had an idea about making some filters which would prevent new and low-ratio users from leeching torrents with a bad "health" (per-torrent up/down ratio), based on their account ratio. this way would be the easiest one of other possible, as other ways require too many combinations for calculation, and coding work (not talking about hunting and squashing bugs). i also had some ideas about lowering the current obligatory ratio levels, but admins say that users abused it in the past, so i'm lost here.
i too, would like to have an option to reset seeding levels in uTorrent, we (users) are still wanting and waiting for this longtime asked feature
…and also for a better sharing scheduler (there is none so far doing what we need) -
Hi All,
Thanks blackdid for posting your unaltered reply. I didn't think it rude, not one profanity at all.
But I was actually asking about the points I'd made. Perhaps they had been missed.
You say:
They gave him Seedbonus Gift because they saw his download rights were disabled and he is a good uploader, as it can be seen in his profile : he uploaded dozens of torrents these last months. Actually he needs to upload more than 22GB to be able to download anything (as shown in his profile)
Now if his upload speed is slow, as you showed it (6.13 KB/s) , that's the reason why he needs all the credit of his upload. We see in the 2 attached pics that he keeps uploading…at his speed, the point is that he won't be able to upload a full copy of his movie (1.37GB) now that he's not alone anymore as a seeder [updated on january 17 : more than 24 hours after I wrote this post, he uploaded only 1.27Gb of his own movie !] . So I'm glad for him that users gifted him with SBP so he'll be able to upload new torrents. If noone gifted him with SBP because of his slow upload speed, then he'd better stop his downloads and uploads, especially if anyone jumps on his torrents before he uploaded a full copy of it.
So in this case :
- the uploader had a ratio problem (download disabled !)
- the uploader had a slow upload speed (6.13Kb/s)
- the jump-on seeder had a fast upload speed (90.84Kb/s)
Was the "jump-on" acceptable on his torrent when he has his ownload rights disabled and he tries to fix his ratio ?
I agree with what you first say.
I'm glad too that he was gifted seed points. He is in a hole with his ratio and is using uploads to solve the problem. I applaud that. The site needs good uploaders and seeders to keep it going.But what you next say seems confused; self-contradictory. "Now if his upload speed is slow, as you showed it (6.13 KB/s) , that's the reason why he needs all the credit of his upload"
No. For him the more files he can upload the better. Then generous and sympathetic members can gift him more points. He has in fact been gifted 3956 points. Points are not guaranteed but they are likely.
But you continue to argue that his seeding is the more important factor. It is not. 24 hours after your post he still had not uploaded all the torrent. But he did gain 420 gift points (that is an equivalent upload volume far greater than he could have managed with his bandwidth) And he went on to upload another torrent and receive more points. That is something he could not have done if he was still slowly seeding that previous torrent. He has since uploaded four more. I’m sure not at 6kb/s.
So by insisting he should upload alone you are making things more difficult for him; doing harm to his attempt to solve his ratio problem.
Take the seed points out of the argument and I agree with you more. But we can't.
Many uploaders do so because they want points, why else do some posts start "SEED POINTS MUCH APPRECIATED"In a nutshell: for uploaders seeking points to raise their ratio the more torrents they push out the better. If someone helps them push one out they can move onto the next more quickly.
I think I must make my next post a case against some jump-on seeders.
After all, I did enter this discussion to see both sides of the argument.Thank you Uwe for the clear and simple explanation. I think I understand it now :) @Uwe: > Not connectible does **not** mean not seeding (or leeching). If someone is off-line as a seeder or leecher of a torrent, he will simply not appear in the peer list [1]. > > Not connectible just means other torrent clients requests for parts (or offers) don't reach that members torrent client programme, which slows down the upload/download, but makes it not impossible. > > The exchange of data happens on private tracker still directly between the members torrent client programmes, not via our site or tracker. Our tracker informs only members about peers and keeps track of the upload/downloads made by the member's torrent client programme reports. > > Private tracker means that no other ways like DHT or peer exchange and so on are allowed to find peers and exchange data on that torrent. So the peers need to use a torrent with our tracker URL and a valid member passkey. > > [1] If the seeding has been stopped properly, else he will show up up-to the end of a second tracker cycle (30 to 60 mins.). But that goes against what amice has said surely? @amice: > @**MrMazda** > > you wrongly got my objection. i was talking about your opinion that _non-connectible_ users should endure jumping-on, just because of their technical state. i asked _why_, because as me, Uwe and others already many times explained that connectibility may not be seen as an obstacle in the seeding process _(as it isn't either)_. During the time a seeder is not connectible a leecher can not send requests. That must be an obstacle in the seeding process? Hey ho - back to wrestle with a Windows 7 install. Best wishes -
No both amice and me are saying that seeding is possible when the seeder is not connectible.
You should be aware that 420 SBP are very exceptional, go through the list and you'll see that usually it is less and sometimes even zero.
If every downloader would just gift a single Seed Bonus Points, at the en it would sum up to important amounts, just a thought …
There is another thing on which I may have got you wrong. The snatched list shows all members who have completed the download (there seems to have been a "cleaning" of history though). Independently if seeding or not.
The green and red dotsin the PM button indicate if the member is logged in, means if a PM is likely to be read immediately or not. It has nothing to do with the leeching / seeding activity. -
@Uwe:
If every downloader would just gift a single Seed Bonus Points, at the end it would sum up to important amounts, just a thought …
I always liked this idea !
Take the seed points out of the argument and I agree with you more.
As I don't take the gifted seed points in consideration, then we agree more
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This is happening to me right now on my upload http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/details.php?id=97877
by user http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/userdetails.php?id=72622:cry2:
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@joeblow123 : I understand it doesn't make you feel happy (see your crying icon)
Especially you prepared patiently 36 pics in the description page, formatted nicely your detailed description text (also including all technical characteristics of the movie) and added 32 tags ~ to indicate many categories, niches and themes, great job !
Then someone jumps on your torrent (without having prepared anything), takes all the credit of your long preparation and you won't be able to upload to the max, especially your ratio isn't good.
Well, you'll sure find some persons who will tell you that nothing can be done about it, personnally I don't like at all this situation on a based ratio site and I understand your frustration, as you maybe read what I wrote about this subject.
Maybe you should PM the guy (it maybe too late in a few hours) asking him to stop immediately, but perhaps he's sleeping now.
In case anyone from the staff needs a pic of the situation, I just took one, showing 2 seeders (including you of course), when all leechers just reached 50%If you prefer to take the pic by yourself and PM it to a Mod, you should do it quickly while you're still 2 seeders, using the link that shows the detailed peers names :
http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/details.php?id=97877&dllist=1#seeders -
A few hours after : thanks to the unknown Mod who stopped this jump-on seeding (now you appear as the only seeder in your hot Vintage torrent, while most leechers downloaded 75% of it) so the hemorrhage will be less important for you.
As both of you (seeders) haven't been online since your last post (as shown in your Forum profile and his GT profile), it shows that a Mod directly fixed the issue, probably PM him so he won't do it again.
Or maybe your jump-on seeder stopped his client program by himself, without accessing GT web site (that could be the reason why he hasn't been on line for many hours), i.e without reading any PM
Don't know why…but my guess is that a Mod fixed the situation.
So thanks to the unknown Mod (or even Admin), whoever you are. -
dears, once for all: we (staff) cannot stop anyone doing this. it's technically impossible because the transfers are P2P based –> you have no transfer interaction with the tracker but with yourselves only (with each other).
i hope that admins will find a technical solution how to stop this pet peeve (and not only this one). so far you are allowed to PM those users to ask them to stop their uploads of your fresh torrents. report them only if you cannot reach them by PM, or if you can but they don't seem to reflect to your request.
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Hi amice
But, as long as you got his IP (in case it's a static IP), it should be possible to block (momentarily) his access to GT tracker ?
Well, I don't know if Mods can do such a thing or if it requires Admin privileges to do this.Also what would be the result of this momentarily blocking ?
He won't be seen anymore as a seeder, his ratio won't be credited each 30 min with many MB that belong to the original uploader and he won't connect to all new leechers after this "forced disconnection" from the tracker. So yes, he should be able to keep on uploading to "old" leechers (but not to the new ones) and his upload amount won't be increased as soon as he is disconnected from GT tracker.But all this would require extra work for all of you…so, as you wrote : "I hope that admins will find a technical solution how to stop those pet peeves"
Recently, Mgr was thinking a lot about this issue, let's wait patiently.
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This thread is really annoying me now.. Who is he Big Brother?? Who is he??
a new film appears, for example [Alphamale] Pumped And Fucked (2010) as in my new upload,
Gee…I can't believe it !!!
We are THREE seeders after 5 minutes of upload,Well actually there was another seeder for 2 seconds.. ME.. I saw your post & was only checking to see if it was the version that I had converted from a 4000kbps wmv [ 6 hours] & uploaded to the .org site [another 6 hours] on 17th Dec.. & it was..
And they thank me, how great…
You should just be thankfull that they thanked you [ I only got 12 out of 323 downloads] & since you were not one of them I assume you got it from the errio. site [oops.. but I see it was never posted on the errio site ].. So where did it come from??..
I deleted my torrent after 10 min of upload because i won't let those guys jump on my torrent after 5 min and take all credit for it
I have no sympathy for anyone who deletes a torrent for such a selfish reason.. You want ALL the credit for yourself?? & if you don't get it you will throw a tantrum??
I always remember that the members like you are what make this site so wonderful. Always a gentlemen and live by the "Do the next right thing" motto.
A lesson better learned sooner than later in life…..
WHAT??
He is on a witch hunt.. Wanting members banned for trying to increase their ratios, allbeit, in the wrong way.."LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE"..
This is happening to me right now on my upload http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/details.php?id=97877
by user http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/userdetails.php?id=72622:cry2:
Now YOU do have my sympathy.. & have just given you a seed bonus gift.. Though it might be better if you temporarilly change your security settings while you initial seed.. so that members can see you are trying to improve your ratio & are taking part / contributing to this community.. ratio only shows in Forum posts.. NOT torrent posts.. If we can see how many points you need [350points = 5GB] it helps us to judge our gifts..
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I deleted my torrent after 10 min of upload because i won't let those guys jump on my torrent after 5 min and take all credit for it
I have no sympathy for anyone who deletes a torrent for such a selfish reason.. You want ALL the credit for yourself??
Yes I want ALL the credit for myself.
I don't like to spend a long time preparing the description AND the numerous pics, chosen them carefully one by one, uploading the torrent and see anyone jump on my torrent until 3-4 have snatched it, as it's the implied rule here.I accept the fact that you have no sympathy for anyone who deletes a torrent for "such a selfish reason" (though I was 100% sure the same movie would be uploaded by someone else a few hours after I deleted it, and this is exactly what happened. I don't care if I lost my time preparing it for nothing, but I hope the jump-on seeder will remind this lesson. And if the same situation happens again, I'll do exactly the same)
So yes, I have no sympathy for anyone who jumps on a torrent when he didn't prepared anything, especially on a ratio-based site, where some users have a slow upload speed.
And I'm not, as you say, "on a witch hunt.. wanting members banned for trying to increase their ratios" : I want members to upload their own NEW fresh torrents and get all credits for their preparation, if they want to boost their ratio. I don't want to see joeblow123, who has a ratio problem, have anyone else seeding with him until 3-4 members have snatched his fresh torrent. And if the jump-on guy has a fast upload speed, that's 10 time worse for the original uploader, is it so hard to understand ?
If you want to see the kind of difficult description I'm talking about, have a look here :
http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/details.php?id=87336&filelist=1#filelistGladly noone could jump-on this kind of torrent, because of the 14 self-prepared zip files…
Btw, I'm having a look at your profile : where can I see the torrents you carefully prepared and uploaded in this site ?(concerning joeblow123)…Though it might be better if you temporarilly change your security settings while you initial seed.. so that members can see you are trying to improve your ratio & are taking part / contributing to this community.. ratio only shows in Forum posts.. NOT torrent posts.. If we can see how many points you need [350points = 5GB] it helps us to judge our gifts..
Your last comment to joeblow123 : he probably can't change his security settings because he's not a Power User (he didn't upload 40GB and his ratio is far under 1.05) . Due to a bug in the site, he'll have to wait to be a Power User in case he wants to have his Profile visible. It happened same for me (I had to wait until I uploaded 40GB, then only I could change my Profile settings and be visible, because I don't like at all hidden profiles)
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Yes I want ALL the credit for myself.
Well now you DO have my sympathy.. In fact I feel very sorry for you.. :cry2:
You don't seem to understand the torrent site ethos of "sharing with friends"..
It's not about my ego or yours.. it's about FRIENDS sharing as best they can.. :hug:
& making allowance for the others failing & mistakes.. -
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guys … if you want to understand a problem, you need to look at it from various angles.
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You don't seem to understand the torrent site ethos of "sharing with friends"..
It's not about my ego or yours.. it's about FRIENDS sharing as best they can... :hug:
...sure, but: this is a strict high-ratio demanding site, hence we need some order in these things. if the only goal would be sharing, be it, but users with slow uplinks suffer here, and it's something we don't want.
basically jumping-on wouldn't need be a problem if users would set their clients properly. but who cares? i saw a few jump-on'ers not only with 1.1 ratio, but even 10x more. this is inacceptable regardless their reasons. low ratio problem is my problem, i have no right to burden someone else with it.
when users see that their uplink bandwidth is exhausted and cannot afford or establish a better one, and have no new stuff to upload, the only way is donation or deletion of the account. another problem: connectability. users should demand 1:1 NAT from their ISPs. once established, also home gateway setting + firewall is needed, so that incoming ports are open. otherwise such users get lost in the ratio 'war' …
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@Uwe:
No both amice and me are saying that seeding is possible when the seeder is not connectible.
You should be aware that 420 SBP are very exceptional, go through the list and you'll see that usually it is less and sometimes even zero.
If every downloader would just gift a single Seed Bonus Points, at the end it would sum up to important amounts, just a thought …
There is another thing on which I may have got you wrong. The snatched list shows all members who have completed the download (there seems to have been a "cleaning" of history though). Independently if seeding or not.
The green and red dotsin the PM button indicate if the member is logged in, means if a PM is likely to be read immediately or not. It has nothing to do with the leeching / seeding activity.Hi Uwe,
Yes, I think I understood that you both said. That it is possible to download from an unconnectible seeder.
The point I was trying to make by contrasting your statements was that not being connectible is an obstacle.
You said 'Not connectible just means other torrent clients requests for parts (or offers) don't reach that member's torrent client programme, which slows down the upload/download'
I've read it put another way; 'if you are not connectable you lose the ability to download and upload to other unconnectible peers'
I was arguing that point because I hold the view that the sooner a downloader gets his torrent the better.
That view is built on the basic belief, one that is built into this site, that sharing is a top priority.However, looking at it from the perspective of an uploader who wants to improve their ratio, it may appear that being unconnectible is a good thing. If they are uploading because there is no demand for any torrents they have downloaded, the longer they spend seeding new upload the more seed points they will earn.
(I'm making the assumption that only seeding earns seed points. No points are given simply for having a torrent available to seed)And from that perspective, centred on the individual, jump-on seeders are an enemy.
Uwe, I would never doctor or trim any histories to make a better argument.
If any of an part of the image is missing it's because of the limits of printscreen. That, and I'm using a newly built Windows 7 system that then had only the basic MS Paint to record images.If the facts don't fit my thinking then I change my mind, not the facts. I too dammed rational to do anything else.
But thanks for pointing that out. It's given the idea that it might be better to save the webpage.
And thanks for clarifying the Green and Red dots. I've still much to learn about how the site operates.Anyway enough of the heady stuff I'm off to watch some good porn before bed
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It seems I've read you statement too quickliy:@contra966:
… I've read it put another way; 'if you are not connectable you lose the ability to download and upload to other unconnectible peers' ...
is completely correct. The up- and download between two not connectible peers can happen only indirectly via third connectible peers. If there is not such third, though both seed, respectively upload, no data will be transferred between them.
… However, looking at it from the perspective of an uploader who wants to improve their ratio, it may appear that being unconnectible is a good thing. If they are uploading because there is no demand for any torrents they have downloaded, the longer they spend seeding new upload the more seed points they will earn.
(I'm making the assumption that only seeding earns seed points. No points are given simply for having a torrent available to seed) ...The assumption is wrong, so the idea developed on it. It is enough to have a single torrent in seeding status in it's torrent client and it sending this status to our tracker, to earn the 0.5 seed bonus points per hour. They are not multiplied by the number of seed torrents. However having more torrents ready to upload data, increases the chance that someone downloads. Nothing is better for share ratio than uploading data, even at the best exchange rate SBP are worth a lousy 1.43 KB/s only,.
Then the way the torrent protocol works, it is better for ratio to have high upload rates (besides the comfort for the downloader), the slower the upload, the closer the upload ratio will be to 1.0 when the first leech will have completed their downloads and they will complete all together at almost the same moment, if the initial seed is slow. Our rule to limit the number of active torrents while initially uploading a new torrent (and only while that period) is going into that direction.
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There's a very easy answer that doesn't need all the technical stuff of modifying the bytes in the files or cutting off a few seconds here or there, or adding a few extra frames, or any other hard things.
When you collect your pictures and movies and all the other stuff you need for your torrent, put 'em all in a folder, and (to make things easy), call it the same thing as what you are going to call the torrent. Then make a torrent with the whole batch, including the preview pictures, and upload it. If you include the pictures, the torrent will be a different size than the original, especially if the pics go before the main movie, then each block of the resulting torrent will be different, and there will be no jump-on problems!
The only way the jump-on can happen is if the new torrent is IDENTICAL to the one the other person has. Adding a single pic, or a text file, something like 'Thank <user>at GT.RU for this download!" can make it different enough that a jump-on can't happen.
While you are doing this, you also help a problem some torrent clients have, with identically-named files. If you are working with more than one DVD, for example, and they have the same file names (like VIDEO.TS), if you are transferring more than one, they will "fight" over the file, unless they are in different folders, and you will end up wasting ratio on both downloads, corrupting others, getting banned, and NEVER getting done.
Trukr, Uwe, MrMazda : thanks for your input
…I'm not sure but i suspect this might work to prevent "jump-in".
making minor alterations to the file you have should cause the file to acquire a different characteristic and whoever trying to perform the jump may find that their existing file lost.
theoretical and might generate some bad blood. I'd prefer if there's no need for such a measure but ... personal preference prevails.eg.
-editing the file to change the size. (adding/cutting a 5 second intro or credit)
-change the encoding.
-[contributor input]Beercan, this is exactly what I was experimenting !
1) 1st try : alter the last byte of an .avi file (with an hexadecimal editor able to re-write part of files…or even sectors on your hard drive, that's a dangerous program !)
As far as a long-term solution, perhaps ratio should be capped at 5 or something like that, to get around those who have extreme speeds and want to seed forever.
I've also seen cases where there were only two completed copies, and there are now no seeders – heck, I have three of them attached to my profile right now, and the other two I'm waiting on have only 1 seeder each. I really wish someone would jump on some of those sometime this month.
Here's a great example: 22 thanks, 5 completed!
http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/details.php?id=30261Here's another: 5 thanks, 2 completed!
http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/details.php?id=64311I've seen others where the original seeder vanished before even finishing the first copy, and I can't tell you how much ratio I've wasted on those, mainly because the stats don't show it! It's too bad there isn't a "I Give UP!" button that I could click on, to get the ratio back for things that will never complete!</user>
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…
If you include the pictures, the torrent will be a different size than the original, especially if the pics go before the main movie, then each block of the resulting torrent will be different, and there will be no jump-on problems!The only way the jump-on can happen is if the new torrent is IDENTICAL to the one the other person has. Adding a single pic, or a text file, something like 'Thank <user>at GT.RU for this download!" can make it different enough that a jump-on can't happen...</user>
either you have the full torrent content or partial, you still can act as an "on-jumper", hence including additional stuff doesn't protect from jumping-on at all.
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but: this is a strict high-ratio demanding site, hence we need some order in these things.
The main problem is that the vast majority of members don't, or can't, visit the Forum _.. & even those who DO read the Forum can missunderstand _..
So why not simply add a jpeg, similar to the one attached, to a torrent post..
EDIT: I find blackdid's habit of editing his previous posts after receiving a reply to them as an indication of his true character..
eg:
@blackdid:Yes I want ALL the credit for myself.
I don't like to spend a long time preparing the description AND the numerous pics, chosen them carefully one by one, uploading the torrent and see anyone jump on my torrent until 3-4 have snatched it, as it's the implied rule here.I accept you have no sympathy for anyone who deletes a torrent for such a selfish reason.
So I have no sympathy for anyone who jumps on a torrent when he didn't prepared anything, especially on a ratio-based site, where some users have slow upload speed.If you want to see the kind of difficult description I'm talking about, have a look here :
http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/details.php?id=87336&filelist=1#filelistGladly noone could jump-on this kind of torrent, because of the 14 zip files…
has NOW changed / expanded to:
Yes I want ALL the credit for myself.
I don't like to spend a long time preparing the description AND the numerous pics, chosen them carefully one by one, uploading the torrent and see anyone jump on my torrent until 3-4 have snatched it, as it's the implied rule here.I accept the fact that you have no sympathy for anyone who deletes a torrent for "such a selfish reason" (though I was 100% sure the same movie would be uploaded by someone else a few hours after I deleted it, and this is exactly what happened. I don't care if I lost my time preparing it for nothing, but I hope the jump-on seeder will remind this lesson. And if the same situation happens again, I'll do exactly the same)
So yes, I have no sympathy for anyone who jumps on a torrent when he didn't prepared anything, especially on a ratio-based site, where some users have a slow upload speed.
And I'm not, as you say, "on a witch hunt.. wanting members banned for trying to increase their ratios" : I want members to upload their own NEW fresh torrents and get all credits for their preparation, if they want to boost their ratio. I don't want to see joeblow123, who has a ratio problem, have anyone else seeding with him until 3-4 members have snatched his fresh torrent. And if the jump-on guy has a fast upload speed, that's 10 time worse for the original uploader, is it so hard to understand ?
If you want to see the kind of difficult description I'm talking about, have a look here :
http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/details.php?id=87336&filelist=1#filelistGladly noone could jump-on this kind of torrent, because of the 14 self-prepared zip files…
Btw, I'm having a look at your profile : where can I see the torrents you carefully prepared and uploaded in this site ?
AS for the "Btw".. I used to post torrents here as WBfluff untill I got sued by EL & had to cancel that membership & obtain a new one as WB2 [thanks to an admin]..
The movies that I rent or buy & then rip or convert are now only posted on another site with the request that others will post them here.. If they are posted directly here then I ask for only a simple THANKS added to my posts "there".. If they arrive here via the .errio site then I don't expect a THANKS..
YOU don't have the good manners to thank your source because you DO want ALL the KUDOS.. so any sympathy I had for you has just evaporated..
EDIT: example from todays torrents: http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/details.php?id=98099 posted yesterday on the .org site with no THANKS added by a member of both sites that wants SEED BONUS GIFTS as an expression of thanks here..
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Thank you blackdid, I contacted both the jump-on seeder and the staff here, and saved screen shots, before I posted in this forum.
One result was a wonderful donation of seed from some very generous members. Thank you all so much!!!!