I can see there is more serious reading to do here.
So I'm slightly embarrassed to post this. But.

To add to the richness of the debate.

What is worse than a jump-on seeder?
Answer: A duplicate seeder.

I posted a torrent two days ago. It was popuplar. Then interest died. C'est la vie.
I posted its follow up today.
Doing the obligatory search I found the first had been duplicated.

Of course mistakes happen, and I'm lucky that I'm not in desperate need of the bandwidth and points that duplicate took.
( That's 122 seed points, taking their gifted total to over 18,300 - that isn't a typo - and 1.83 GB of upload bandwidth, if you're interested )

Just food for thought and too tempting not to share with you.  :hug:

@Uwe:

No both amice and me are saying that seeding is possible when the seeder is not connectible.

You should be aware that 420 SBP are very exceptional, go through the list and you'll see that usually it is less and sometimes even zero.

If every downloader would just gift a single Seed Bonus Points, at the end it would sum up to important amounts, just a thought …

There is another thing on which I may have got you wrong. The snatched list shows all members who have completed the download (there seems to have been a "cleaning" of history though). Independently if seeding or not.
The green and red dotsin the PM button indicate if the member is logged in, means if a PM is likely to be read immediately or not. It has nothing to do with the leeching / seeding activity.

Hi Uwe,

Yes, I think I understood that you both said. That it is possible to download from an unconnectible seeder.

The point I was trying to make by contrasting your statements was that not being connectible is an obstacle.

You said 'Not connectible just means other torrent clients requests for parts (or offers) don't reach that member's torrent client programme, which slows down the upload/download'

I've read it put another way; 'if you are not connectable you lose the ability to download and upload to other unconnectible peers'

I was arguing that point because I hold the view that the sooner a downloader gets his torrent the better.
That view is built on the basic belief, one that is built into this site, that sharing is a top priority.

However, looking at it from the perspective of an uploader who wants to improve their ratio, it may appear that being unconnectible is a good thing. If they are uploading because there is no demand for any torrents they have downloaded, the longer they spend seeding new upload the more seed points they will earn.
(I'm making the assumption that only seeding earns seed points. No points are given simply for having a torrent available to seed)

And from that perspective, centred on the individual, jump-on seeders are an enemy.

Uwe, I would never doctor or trim any histories to make a better argument.
If any of an part of the image is missing it's because of the limits of printscreen. That, and I'm using a newly built Windows 7 system that then had only the basic MS Paint to record images.

If the facts don't fit my thinking then I change my mind, not the facts. I too dammed rational to do anything else.

But thanks for pointing that out. It's given the idea that it might be better to save the webpage.
And thanks for clarifying the Green and Red dots. I've still much to learn about how the site operates.

Anyway enough of the heady stuff I'm off to watch some good porn before bed

Ok, here's one. It popped up in the suggested torrent box.

BelAmi - Erik Bouna : Brandon Manilow : Julien Hussey  ~bareback
the next part of popular bareback series *********************** seed bonus appreciated ********************* thank you ******************************

I wonder what was in the mind of the uploader who wrote that description?

He He, I like your style 

And no offence to you my friend, but thats a bit like a caring parent picking up the mess from an unruly teenager.

If they are going to behave like brats, GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE, then the kindest thing to do is show them some TOUGH love!  :spank2:

@Uwe:

Basically the Staff agrees with you. See for example http://forum.gaytorrent.ru/index.php?topic=7208.msg34038#msg34038

Rather than creating another rule (we got already soooooo many), we tried by explaining and PM to regulate the way it is asked for seed bonus. I think that was rather success full, because it has calmed down.

I'm afraid the rot is creeping back in Uwe.

Last week I opened the seach window and at the top were music torrents whose description began SEED BONUS NEEDED AND APPRECIATED. THANKS. I just felt that is so wrong!

It's about as welcoming as walking into a bar and standing next to a drunk shouting "BYE ME A DRINK"

Music seem to be the worst with 6 of the top 7 music postings begin with the begging cup.

Orbital
Seed bonus appreciated
10 SeedPoints

Nightmares On Wax - Smoker's Delight
Seed Bonus Appreciated
15 SeedPoints

Low - Secret Name
SEED BONUS NEEDED AND APPRECIATED. THANKS.
10 SeedPoints

Caribou - Swim
SEED BONUS NEEDED AND APPRECIATED. THANKS.
65 SeedPoints

Antony and the Johnsons - The Crying Light
SEED BONUS NEEDED AND APPRECIATED, THANKS!
35 SeedPoints

NINA SIMONE - LET IT BE ME
SEED BONUS NEEDED AND MUCH APPRECIATED.
465 SeedPoints

But search for seed bonus and the results say that the current crop of uploaders think it is fine and good to have it right in your face.

There was talk when seed bonuses were intoduced that problems could happen if people start to see it as a currency. That is a bigger debate.

Yes there are plenty of rules, some say too many. I did read that and agreed.

But now I would like to see one more.
'Do not request seed bonus in the opening description'
If you can see those words, or some slippery work-around, from the search you are on the wrong side of the community.

I'd suggest those uploads are refused moderation until changed.
I'd also suggest any auto-approval is suspended.

It's easy enough to remember that we can't post Titan and Lucas titles or anything we know is evil, real snuff, paedophilia, rape.
Remembering not to start grabbing at peoples pockets should be just as easy.

Hi All,

Thanks blackdid for posting your unaltered reply. I didn't think it rude, not one profanity at all.

But I was actually asking about the points I'd made. Perhaps they had been missed.

You say:

@blackdid:

They gave him Seedbonus Gift because they saw his download rights were disabled and he is a good uploader, as it can be seen in his profile : he uploaded dozens of torrents these last months. Actually he needs to upload more than 22GB to be able to download anything (as shown in his profile)

Now if his upload speed is slow, as you showed it (6.13 KB/s) , that's the reason why he needs all the credit of his upload. We see in the 2 attached pics that he keeps uploading…at his speed, the point is that he won't be able to upload a full copy of his movie (1.37GB) now that he's not alone anymore as a seeder [updated on january 17 : more than 24 hours after I wrote this post, he uploaded only 1.27Gb of his own movie !] . So I'm glad for him that users gifted him with SBP so he'll be able to upload new torrents. If noone gifted him with SBP because of his slow upload speed, then he'd better stop his downloads and uploads, especially if anyone jumps on his torrents before he uploaded a full copy of it.

So in this case :

• the uploader had a ratio problem (download disabled !)
• the uploader had a slow upload speed (6.13Kb/s)
• the jump-on seeder had a fast upload speed (90.84Kb/s)
  Was the "jump-on" acceptable on his torrent when he has his ownload rights disabled and he tries to fix his ratio ?

I agree with what you first say.
I'm glad too that he was gifted seed points. He is in a hole with his ratio and is using uploads to solve the problem. I applaud that. The site needs good uploaders and seeders to keep it going.

But what you next say seems confused; self-contradictory. "Now if his upload speed is slow, as you showed it (6.13 KB/s) , that's the reason why he needs all the credit of his upload"

No. For him the more files he can upload the better. Then generous and sympathetic members can gift him more points. He has in fact been gifted 3956 points. Points are not guaranteed but they are likely.

But you continue to argue that his seeding is the more important factor. It is not. 24 hours after your post he still had not uploaded all the torrent. But he did gain 420 gift points (that is an equivalent upload volume far greater than he could have managed with his bandwidth) And he went on to upload another torrent and receive more points. That is something he could not have done if he was still slowly seeding that previous torrent. He has since uploaded four more. I’m sure not at 6kb/s.

So by insisting he should upload alone you are making things more difficult for him; doing harm to his attempt to solve his ratio problem.

Take the seed points out of the argument and I agree with you more. But we can't.
Many uploaders do so because they want points, why else do some posts start "SEED POINTS MUCH APPRECIATED"

In a nutshell: for uploaders seeking points to raise their ratio the more torrents they push out the better. If someone helps them push one out they can move onto the next more quickly.

I think I must make my next post a case against some jump-on seeders.
After all, I did enter this discussion to see both sides of the argument.

Thank you Uwe for the clear and simple explanation. I think I understand it now :)

@Uwe:

> Not connectible does **not** mean not seeding (or leeching). If someone is off-line as a seeder or leecher of a torrent, he will simply not appear in the peer list [1].
> 
> Not connectible just means other torrent clients requests for parts (or offers) don't reach that members torrent client programme, which slows down the upload/download, but makes it not impossible.
> 
> The exchange of data happens on private tracker still directly between the members torrent client programmes, not via our site or tracker. Our tracker informs only members about peers and keeps track of the upload/downloads made by the member's torrent client programme reports.
> 
> Private tracker means that no other ways like DHT or peer exchange and so on are allowed to find peers and exchange data on that torrent. So the peers need to use a torrent with our tracker URL and a valid member passkey.
> 
> [1] If the seeding has been stopped properly, else he will show up up-to the end of a second tracker cycle (30 to 60 mins.).

But that goes against what amice has said surely?

@amice:

> @**MrMazda**
> 
> you wrongly got my objection. i was talking about your opinion that _non-connectible_ users should endure jumping-on, just because of their technical state. i asked _why_, because as me, Uwe and others already many times explained that connectibility may not be seen as an obstacle in the seeding process _(as it isn't either)_.

During the time a seeder is not connectible a leecher can not send requests. That must be an obstacle in the seeding process?

Hey ho - back to wrestle with a Windows 7 install.

Best wishes

Hi,

As blackdid points out, I beleive I'm guilty of stupidly equating 'not connectible' with offline.
Possibly an easy mistake to confuse the two when looking at snatch details and seeing the green on status and red off status. If I've understood correctly, that red really does mean the user is offline, then its is sad that so many users turn off their machines immediately after leeching their torrent.

And that has sparked a technical discussion. I also believe, again possibly worngly, that as this is a private tracker requests for pieces from leechers have to be served up the tracker. And if true that makes a bottle-neck. I look forward to being advised on that.

Blackdid I'm sorry to have caused you to become 'excited'. Your previous post sounded measured.

But can I draw attention to the bigger picture of last night.
There were at the time of my intevention 156 patient, or possibly impatient users, who had been waiting a day only to reach the 50% mark.
After a few hours the file had been seeded. I let the swarm do its job. Stopped the torrent and focussed on my upload of ~R [CITEBEUR] - Wesh Cousin #8: CAiLLERAS EN FORCE

So 156 members of our family had been kept happy. 274 now.

I haven't had an angry message from jacky75, perhaps he's unaware. But I imagine that he is happy too.

He now has 420 (much needed) seed gift points from that title. And within the day has now sucessfully uploaded and seeded another torrent. (I'll add that in the light of that, whatever the technical  'not connectible' arguments, it seems plain that there was a problem.)

Now I really do not see what I've stolen from him. He has the seed points. The title is on his list of uploads, giving him kudos and a step towards auto-approval.

I'm really supporting MrMazda's and trukr's argument that the practice is not bad in every case. If rules have to be made it has to be better that they have been discussed and thought through.

I'm open to being convinced that this really is an evil.

Until then blackdid I can't see why this causes you so much grief.
I see you are a clever and resourceful man.
You have a very slow connection, but you have an outstanding share ratio, greater than 4.
You have uploaded over 30 torrents and gained the respect and thanks of the community.
Generous members have epressed that thanks with over 3000 gift points.

I look forward to your next post

Best wishes
Contra966

Thank you MrMazda for advocating the jump-on practice in special situations where the seeder can't or won't finish sharing the torrent.
These situations are fairly common.

Today I saw this on Man & Man Media - Bareback Boys: Hot Young Boys http://tracker.gaytorrent.ru/details.php?id=95239&dllist=1#seeders a hot title.

Cat                         Top 1-15                            S/L  Snatched
Twinks Man & Man Media - Bareback Boys: Hot …   1/153   0

The seeder was offline. So I found the file and am seeding it now so the 153 patient men can get past 57%
The file isn't huge 1.37G and was uploaded on the 2011-01-15 07:35:06.

His details are here:
User Connectable Uploaded Upspeed Downloaded Downspeed Ratio Completed Checked UserAgent
jacky75 No       991.64 MB 6.13 KB/s 0.00 kB  0 B/s         Inf. 100.00% 08:05:43 uTorrent/2200(23703

What I find troubling about the situation is that some generous leechers had given the uploader a Seedbonus Gift of 390.0
If they were given as a tip to ensure promptness it seems that was an empty gesture.

The posters torrent description begins:
"Please give me some extra bonus points - I need them......
Please rate and re-seed. Bonus Points are always Greatly Appreciated..Thank you!"

I've added these details because although some might say it is off-topic. It seems to me related to the discussions:
Seed Bonus Whores! http://forum.gaytorrent.ru/index.php?topic=8291.msg30079#msg30079
and
Asking For Seed Bonus Gifts http://forum.gaytorrent.ru/index.php?topic=7208.msg25018#msg25018

I'm sure each case is different, but a simple starting point for many of those that need seed points may be to actually spend time seeding.

EDIT: (MrMazda 2011-01-16) - Corrected URL tags

Hello all,

I was VERY interested to find this discussion. It's a topic that I've been curious about for a while.
And after seeing the first page I was preparing some wider arguments.

But after rerading posts by trukr http://forum.gaytorrent.ru/index.php?topic=12710.msg59703#msg59703
And MrMazda http://forum.gaytorrent.ru/index.php?topic=12710.msg59625#msg59625

I feel a better balance to the argument has been made. I agree with most of the very sensible points they have made.

Firstly I'm not an innocent. I'm guilty of Jump-on / re-seed crimes, by definition of the first suggested new 'rules'.
That said I have never hijacked an uploader’s posts.

Eh?? Doesn't make sense ??

Let me explain. A few times I've logged onto the site, looked at the 'Most wanted Torrents' and seen a few leechers against a red seeder (offline), small sympathy.

I've also seen a hundred or more leechers hoping  for that seeder to end their wait. They get my attention. The seeder is offline. A hundred hopeful downloaders waiting on the seeders pleasure.

Isn't the first rule here seed 'continue until two or three have the torrent?'

So, then if I have the file, which I may well have got from the same source as the uplaoder; the files being identical, I will finish the seeder’s job for him. In such a situation I think of my self as the 'kind seeder fairy'.
If I am wrong please disabuse me.

What is in it for me? Nothing. My ratio is fine. My seed points are embarrasing, 4K+, I have treated it as a badge of honour for keeping torrents alive. But after reading another thread on seed gifts I intend to do something about that - but that is another issue. And one that ties in nicely here.

I agree with trukr's comment that ultimately this is a file sharing site.
To put it bluntly if you aren't in a position to share then don't. Unlike file sharing forums we only allow one upload for any file - arguments about 1kb difference in file size really are not material.

To illustrate, I had a disagreement recently with a member over a file. It was 500 Mb or so. It took three days to download. I know it can be difficult to upload. My maximum is 100Kb. But over night I can upload 1GB or more. It is a small hardship if you want to give.

The relationship between file sharing sites and torrent sites has changed hugely in recent years. Gaytorrent.ru was THE place to come to quality, available files. File sharing sites have grown dramatically.,mostly because of the money posters earn.

Now, files posted on the internet are uploaded here within hours. Files posted here are available on premium hosters within hours. It maybe a coincidence but my recent re-post, I claim no credit only thanks to the original uploader, was on the most prolific forum poster's thread within days. Not bad for a file years old but unavailable here until recently; Triga - White Van Man

So to uploaders 'rights'. Well, if you have an original file I will support your every argument.
Otherwise, if you have downloaded it from another forum and posted it here faster than anybody else a few facts that seem obvious. Again, please disabuse me.

As the first uploader you gain the thanks and gift points from every grateful leecher. Despite some ingrates as the boss says.

Well that's it for Brownie points. Ewe said you lose the kudos of a seed ratio of one. I'll need him to explain that technicality to me.

But to the bigger picture: You found a fantastic piece of porn from a great studio. Decided to share it (illegally) with the poor people that can't afford to bye it.

There was queue hoping to post that here, but they missed out. I have been one of them. I've prepared a good page with great pics, then found I've missed out to a faster technician. Ce'st la vie! I was too slow.

So does the fastest man win the right to say 'I and only I have the right to seed this torrent' ?

When I first joined here the hardest lesson I learned was maintain your ratio. I had no idea about uploading torrents. I just seeded. I downloaded popular files and shared them. Then I continued to share. I still do.

My point, yes I got there at last. If a file is good then members will want it. Put your ego aside. You may not be the man to have completed the seed of the porn of the day; other's may have helped. But if you can only seed 500Mb a day what is the harm of allowing another to help? Just continue to seed. People will still want it! This board is about sharing. Or is it about your personal ratio?

And if you still feel you want to be the man in charge of the torrent. Remember where it came from. And the dozens of other posters on similar boards replicating the same file to the equal annoyance of the 'true' poster.

Uploaders are great, I applaud and encourage them. But to those that upload, then do not continue to seed or participate I take a different view.

They are here to give little, take much and beg for points, shame on you! You take the best and re-post it on other forums.  You exploit others’ goodwill.
So do I want to hand control to that particular Mafia? No!

The time spent policing secondary posters may be better spent policing members that download here then post elsewhere for a profit.

Hi,

I'm a relative newbie to torrents but one thing I have noticed with Utorrent is that it is a big hog on resources.

I use plain vanilla BitTorrent, its the one I started out with - and its probably lacking some features but I don't feel like I'm missing out.
BitTorrent does it's job - lightweight and robust.

It's a bit like buying a new piece of HiFi kit. go for one with most buttons and dazzling displays, or go for the one most rated on giving top performance. Thats a no brainer to me.

So here's what I find.

Since joining and wanting to get my ratio up BitTorrent is always on. I use that client exclusively for Gaytorrent.ru and keep my download speed set to just below my upload speed. Sure I can't eat up all those juicy porn flicks as fast as my connection will allow, but I'm sharing like the rules say. I've grown to respect the sites tough line. This is long-haul.

eMule is on pretty much most of the time too. It's good and dependable. With those two I can still surf in comfort.

Whenever Utorrent is on with BitTorrent my surfing grinds to a halt. It had the same connection settings as BitTorrent, but with it on I get address not found or connection interuppted error messages from the web pages I'm trying to access.

I hope sharing this with other newbies puts another point of reference on their map.

I'll go and have a look at Bitcomet to see what it's like - cheers