Obamacare = forced insurance?
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Some things puzzle me about Obamacare.
Obamacare is not free healthcare, you and/or your employer have to pay for it.
Let's just pretend that Obamacare completely vanished overnight….
What is to stop people from buying their OWN health insurance?
Seems to me that people could buy better insurance on their own than the crap they are forced to buy that covers very little.This is one topic that I lack an understanding of, because I've never had a health issue that would be covered by Obamacare.
I've always been puzzled why insurance doesn't cover or barely covers anything to do with dental, vision, or hearing.Why should I pay for someone's shitty health because they smoked, abused alcohol, did drugs, ate the wrong foods, etc.?
My understanding is that people who would have healthcare insurance whether or not Obamacare existed, want everybody else to have Obamacare to subsidize THEIR insurance and lower their costs.
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Not reading what you're saying, the title is like, DUH, but thanks for getting there.
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ACA is a step towards universal healthcare and since it is popular now, it is going to be hard to remove. The Republicans realize that now. Back to the main point, ACA aka Obamacare is a step towards universal healthcare but sadly still has the private insurance companies involved. The majority of Americans support what Bernie Sanders has been talking about, single-payer, which is what many other developed countries have. We could have had a single-payer system; however, Democrats wanted to include people like then-Senator Joe Lieberman (former faux Democrat and later faux Independent) who said he'd vote for ACA if the public option and other things that would have made ACA a bigger step towards single-payer were removed. Democrats removed key provisions and Lieberman along with then-Senator Olympia Snowe (R-ME) still voted against the bill when it came up for final votes. In short, we would be even closer to single-payer had Democrats just come together and voted for single-payer without any Republican or faux Independent
outputinput. Given the opportunity, Democrats will get us a lot closer to single-payer next time around. -
Not reading what you're saying, the title is like, DUH, but thanks for getting there.
It is DUH for you.. but not for the libtards who can't understand even the simplest concepts.
The media are playing this as if Trump is denying free healthcare coverage from 25 million people. Those people were not getting free healthcare coverage to begin with. What Trump is doing is not FORCING people to pay for coverage that they don't want.People also get the idea that when their employer is paying the healthcare premiums.. that they are getting it for free. Uh.. no. Instead of having more money going into one's paycheck, that money is being taken before the employee ever sees it, and being sent off to the government. Which by the way.. is a concept in communism.
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Well it's duh for me because I am friends with two gay doctors who left to the country because it was cheaper than living here and paying Obamacare taxes.
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But your point is correct. 100%
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ACA is a step towards universal healthcare and since it is popular now, it is going to be hard to remove. The Republicans realize that now. Back to the main point, ACA aka Obamacare is a step towards universal healthcare but sadly still has the private insurance companies involved. The majority of Americans support what Bernie Sanders has been talking about, single-payer, which is what many other developed countries have. We could have had a single-payer system; however, Democrats wanted to include people like then-Senator Joe Lieberman (former faux Democrat and later faux Independent) who said he'd vote for ACA if the public option and other things that would have made ACA a bigger step towards single-payer were removed. Democrats removed key provisions and Lieberman along with then-Senator Olympia Snowe (R-ME) still voted against the bill when it came up for final votes. In short, we would be even closer to single-payer had Democrats just come together and voted for single-payer without any Republican or faux Independent
outputinput. Given the opportunity, Democrats will get us a lot closer to single-payer next time around.Way to dodge a question.
The USA pays far more for healthcare than any other country in the world, yet the standard of healthcare is terrible.
As for Bernie's ideas.. too bad that Hillary blatantly stole the nomination from him.
Countries with universal healthcare typically have bare bones, substandard healthcare with LONG waits to see a doctor, expedient / cheap solutions to problems such as amputating limbs rather than repairing them, and nasty scars because making things look nice is an expensive luxury.The way to lower healthcare costs is COMPETITION. Whenever insurance is involved, competition goes out the window. For instance.. when it comes to frames for glasses, if someone is paying out of pocket they are charged one price, but if they are paying with insurance, they are pushed into - and eagerly accept - the most expensive frames known to mankind that are virtually identical to the cheap frames.
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Well it's duh for me because I am friends with two gay doctors who left to the country because it was cheaper than living here and paying Obamacare taxes.
Did they go to a country with universal healthcare?? If so, :cheers: your friends are proof that America should have single-payer!
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The way to lower healthcare costs is COMPETITION.
That argument is tired and over. Sorry, but the year is 2017 not 1981 when Reagan sold his disgusting greed message as "American prosperity." No one is falling for that in 2017 and good luck getting people who actually do like their healthcare plans or are satisfied with their Medicaid coverage to give it all up just so people who already have the means to take care of themselves can have more money in their pockets. The good old days of getting the poor and working poor to care about the well-being of the super rich are as dead as Ronald Wilson "Grand Devil" Reagan. Those days are burning in hell with him and his trickle-down economic policies :cheers:
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Not reading what you're saying, the title is like, DUH, but thanks for getting there.
It is DUH for you.. but not for the libtards who can't understand even the simplest concepts.
The media are playing this as if Trump is denying free healthcare coverage from 25 million people. Those people were not getting free healthcare coverage to begin with. What Trump is doing is not FORCING people to pay for coverage that they don't want.People also get the idea that when their employer is paying the healthcare premiums.. that they are getting it for free. Uh.. no. Instead of having more money going into one's paycheck, that money is being taken before the employee ever sees it, and being sent off to the government. Which by the way.. is a concept in communism.
Seems to me that it is you who is unable to understand the simplest concepts.
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Very few people are getting free health insurance under Obamacare. The only people who are getting it for free at present at those earning less than $16,000 per year. These are people who are covered by the expanded medicare/medicaid which varies from state to state. Is this helping anyone? Yes. My sister, who is a pediatrician (and who was initially against Obamacare) is now all for it for the simple reason that she is getting to see all the children who were never brought in before because their parents either did not have insurance, or were unwilling to pay the very high deductibles their shitty (but cheap) private insurance forced them to pay for each visit. Some of these children had never even come in for their vaccinations.
Between 16 and $32,000 per year, you pay on average $80 - 120 per month for insurance, for full coverage. The same amount only got you the very shittiest coverage with the highest deductibles in the private marketplace. If you have an income of above $48,000 per year, you are not eligible to get insurance on the exchange, but have to get private insurance. The assumption is that your employer is paying for it, I guess. -
Pre-existing conditions: Do you have any idea how reluctant insurance companies are to cover this? A student of mine who had cystic fibrosis was unable to get any insurance at all for many years once he aged out of getting coverage through his parents. The poor guy spent years essentially diagnosing himself, buying blackmarket medicine, expired medicines, and medicines from South America just to stay alive. The only time he ever saw a doctor was when he got his frequent bouts of pneumonia and was taken to the Emergency room.
I experienced this directly as well. I was covered by Aetna for many years. When I went back to college for post-grad, I switched over to their student rates because they were cheaper, for the same plan. At no point did I lose Aetna coverage. And then I got a kidney stone three months after I went to the lower rate. Aetna refused to cover ANY cost of my treatment, insisting that it was a "Pre-existing condition" even tho I had been with them for nearly 12 years in total - during which time I never had to see a doctor. (Never fall sick in the first six months of coverage, folks!) I ended up with a medical bill of over $70,000 which I had to take them to court for. -
Deductible limits. Under Obamacare, deductibles are limited to $6000 per year on the lowest tier - which is the tier that is most commonly bankrupted by medical services.
Fuck - you disgust me too much to continue, even though there are a lot of more points to make.
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reading all that I'm very proud of my country and universal health care system that although imperfect and expensive we praise.
I rather be part of a nation that dont put " in god we trust" everywhere but act upon the fact that life and health are the most precious thing there are and greed a real sin. -
I don't really understand how you can actually believe these people are more than actors like Maxine and Chuck and Hillary and Obama. They are ACTORS. What have they really done?! The answer is NOTHING. They've created nothing but a bunch of DESTRUCTION.
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reading all that I'm very proud of my country and universal health care system that although imperfect and expensive we praise.
I rather be part of a nation that dont put " in god we trust" everywhere but act upon the fact that life and health are the most precious thing there are and greed a real sin.Yes, as you can see by Frederick's responses, greed is a serious problem we have in America but the more we forget about Ronald Wilson "Grand Devil" Reagan, the closer we get to moving away from greed.
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Honestly show me one good thing about the FUCKING GOD DAMNED OBAMACARE BILL?! ONE DAMN GOOD THING. ONE. Just go ahead.
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Honestly show me one good thing about the FUCKING GOD DAMNED OBAMACARE BILL?! ONE DAMN GOOD THING. ONE. Just go ahead.
Repealing it will flip the House and Senate to Democratic control :cheers:
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Honestly show me one good thing about the FUCKING GOD DAMNED OBAMACARE BILL?! ONE DAMN GOOD THING. ONE. Just go ahead.
Do you even read the responses? I just gave at least 3 PERSONAL stories -above - about the benefits of Obamacare - even though I am not on Obamacare myself.
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Honestly show me one good thing about the FUCKING GOD DAMNED OBAMACARE BILL?! ONE DAMN GOOD THING. ONE. Just go ahead.
Do you even read the responses? I just gave at least 3 PERSONAL stories -above - about the benefits of Obamacare - even though I am not on Obamacare myself.
I just read your 3 items below.. that you posted 4 hours ago. Sorry I didn't respond fast enough for you.
You gave some very good information, which verifies what I had in my mind.
I do have some questions and comments for you though.
1. Who is getting FREE healthcare if earning less than $16,000 per year? I think only juveniles, or am I wrong?
2. Defining a pre-existing condition is highly subjective.
3. I don't think full coverage is actually full coverage… for instance.. eyes can be fixed with laser surgery now.. but I doubt very much that any insurance covers that (interestingly, for a couple of years, insurance DID cover radial keratotomy which was the micro slicing of the cornea surface like a pizza to correct vision). I think even "full coverage" only covers thinks such as wounds, broken bones, and diseases.But all of that is besides the point. Obamacare sucks, the healthcare system is WAY overpriced, and government should stick to lowering and regulating healthcare costs, and let the consumer decide what insurance, if any, they would like to buy.
I can't resist adding one thing. My father had a simple procedure last year that involved a 1 hour procedure and 2 day hospital stay. The only cutting was a half inch incision. The anesthesia alone was $5000 (even though the liter bag of anesthesia costs only $500 - which is also too high). The 1 hour procedure was $28,000, and the 2 day hospital stay was another $50,000 ($50,000 for a couple of motrin, 6 meals, and a bed? hmm... ).
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Some things puzzle me about Obamacare.
Obamacare is not free healthcare, you and/or your employer have to pay for it.
Let's just pretend that Obamacare completely vanished overnight….
What is to stop people from buying their OWN health insurance?
Seems to me that people could buy better insurance on their own than the crap they are forced to buy that covers very little.This is one topic that I lack an understanding of, because I've never had a health issue that would be covered by Obamacare.
I've always been puzzled why insurance doesn't cover or barely covers anything to do with dental, vision, or hearing.Why should I pay for someone's shitty health because they smoked, abused alcohol, did drugs, ate the wrong foods, etc.?
My understanding is that people who would have healthcare insurance whether or not Obamacare existed, want everybody else to have Obamacare to subsidize THEIR insurance and lower their costs.
I agree with you on all of your points. The solution to this is single payer.
Don't even mention free market. If John Smith makes $50k per year but needs $100k per year in treatment and drugs to stay alive there is no free market solution for him. It doesn't exist and it never will. Companies will NEVER compete for his business. It won't happen.
For the most part, health insurers don't provide any value to the healthcare system. They simply skim money off the top and complicate life for all parties involved. Trust me. I know. I've worked in health insurance for my entire career.
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Not reading what you're saying, the title is like, DUH, but thanks for getting there.
It is DUH for you.. but not for the libtards who can't understand even the simplest concepts.
The media are playing this as if Trump is denying free healthcare coverage from 25 million people. Those people were not getting free healthcare coverage to begin with. What Trump is doing is not FORCING people to pay for coverage that they don't want.People also get the idea that when their employer is paying the healthcare premiums.. that they are getting it for free. Uh.. no. Instead of having more money going into one's paycheck, that money is being taken before the employee ever sees it, and being sent off to the government. Which by the way.. is a concept in communism.
I think you are misunderstanding what the AHCA does. While there isn't a mandate, there is a requirement that you must maintain coverage. If you don't maintain coverage and try to buy insurance later you have to pay more money for it. This will be a disaster as people will wait until they get sick to purchase insurance and then won't be able to afford it. They will be forced to go back and use the ER care which is expensive and not the right kind of care. They won't be able to afford those bills either and then the taxpayers get stuck paying those bills as well as the responsible people who have insurance. I'm sick and tired of paying for freeloaders. ObamaCare eliminated freeloaders and forced everyone to pay something even if it was just a fine.
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Some things puzzle me about Obamacare.
Obamacare is not free healthcare, you and/or your employer have to pay for it.
Let's just pretend that Obamacare completely vanished overnight….
What is to stop people from buying their OWN health insurance?
Seems to me that people could buy better insurance on their own than the crap they are forced to buy that covers very little.This is one topic that I lack an understanding of, because I've never had a health issue that would be covered by Obamacare.
I've always been puzzled why insurance doesn't cover or barely covers anything to do with dental, vision, or hearing.Why should I pay for someone's shitty health because they smoked, abused alcohol, did drugs, ate the wrong foods, etc.?
My understanding is that people who would have healthcare insurance whether or not Obamacare existed, want everybody else to have Obamacare to subsidize THEIR insurance and lower their costs.
I agree with you on all of your points. The solution to this is single payer.
Don't even mention free market. If John Smith makes $50k per year but needs $100k per year in treatment and drugs to stay alive there is no free market solution for him. It doesn't exist and it never will. Companies will NEVER compete for his business. It won't happen.
For the most part, health insurers don't provide any value to the healthcare system. They simply skim money off the top and complicate life for all parties involved. Trust me. I know. I've worked in health insurance for my entire career.
And that's what it keeps coming back to: greed. How greedy do we want our nation to remain and do we want to become a greedier nation? Should we continue to put a price on human lives and should we increase that price? That's what this argument has become and without a smart president to manipulate us, everyone is realizing the real argument about greed. Like I've said many times on here, Reagan and his evil policies are dead and burning in hell. It is time for us to move on and it starts with us confronting and destroying the greed. I wish Bernie would have been better at arguing this point. His entire slogan should have been, "End Reaganomics and Greed."
