North Carolina is a lesson all Republicans should heed
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This week, North Carolina Republican state legislators tried to introduce a bill that would make same-sex marriage illegal and the Republican House Speaker in the legislature has said the bill is now "dead on arrival." It seems that Republicans in North Carolina are slowly understanding the country has moved on. After the disastrous "bathroom bill" debacle, Republicans in the state obviously realize money matters way more than their backwards beliefs. We are a capitalist society and when North Carolina lost out on billions of dollars due to the "bathroom bill," it appears the Republican party in that state got the message. They lost out on being able to host the NBA All Star game because of the discriminating bill. Their Republican governor lost his reelection due to that same discriminating bill. You cannot pass discriminatory laws in the US anymore without very real ramifications for passing those laws.
Now, will the national Republican party get the message? That is the million dollar question at the moment. Will Republicans in other states attempt to discriminate against LGBT individuals knowing it will negatively effect their state's economy? I have a feeling legislation attempts will cease, but I also have a feeling that there will be attempts to get cases to the Supreme Court. Once again, the country has moved on from this and any attempts at this point will come with heavy consequences. If the Republicans do get a case to the Supreme Court and lets say the justices actually do say, "It's up to states whether they want to adhere to the previous ruling," then each state will still be hit hard economically if they decide not to adhere to the court's previous ruling. There is no way out of the box Republicans will put themselves in by going after this issue.
As a gay married man who is currently taking advantage of the many privileges given to married people, I sincerely hope the Republican party will back off of this issue. Back off of any issue that discriminates against LGBT individuals because it's just not good for business.
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I also believe there will be attempts, as much as I want to believe this issue is over. I am concerned that some may take the Election win as some sort of green flag to drag it all through the courts, win or lose, again. But as you said, if they do, it will not be without fights, boycotts and drama and they would really need to think about if it is worth it.
I am hoping they simply take Trump's attitude - at worst. Trump has, recently, said : “These cases have gone to the Supreme Court. They’ve been settled. And I’m — I’m fine with that,” - He has not gone as far to, recently, state his views exactly but has pretty much said it is not on his "to do " list
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Obvoiusly they haven't all gotten the message or they wouldn't continue writing these bills in the first place.
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Obvoiusly they haven't all gotten the message or they wouldn't continue writing these bills in the first place.
Yeah, they haven't all gotten the message yet. But the ones in leadership have. It was the North Carolina Republican Speaker of the House that put a stop to the bill's progression and deemed it dead on arrival. After what that state went through, I have confidence it'll be like that from now on.
I do think one of the biggest problems is fellow gays wanting to see our community be discriminated against. Look at how some of the users on this forum respond to Republican discrimination against fellow gays, it's almost like they enjoy seeing fellow gays get bashed, treated poorly or even sometimes murdered during hate crimes. I've brought up the sad and brutal way Matthew Shepard's life ended on here multiple times, and you would think everyone on here would at least agree that the heinous hate crime is horrible but there are users on here who couldn't care less. It's very sad and when Republicans see how divided we are as members of the LGBT community, it helps them discriminate against us all. How can we continue to fight against very real acts of discrimination when a large portion of the community not only dismisses those acts' legitimacy but also wants to see Republican lawmakers create laws that harm us?
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Anti gay/lesbian is fading quickly from most conservatives as the older ones die off. Most young conservatives don't view gays/lesbians as an issue.
In the UK, it was the Tories (conservatives) who gave us total equality in marriage and related laws. Labour (liberals) only gave us business contract based "civil partnerships" and "somewhat similar" rights to marriage.
Trans and identity issues are the newest thing. NYC, Canada and maybe others legally punishing people for "wrong speak" when it comes to personal pronouns and crap like that. In NYC, a business can fined $125,000 for ACCIDENTALLY using the wrong personal pronouns and/or mis-gendering someone; each time. It's $250,000 each time if it's deemed to be on purpose. WTF?! Imagine girly girl Elliot Cope walking into a shop in NYC and someone greets her a if she weren't male. Everything about her is female, but she claims to be male. She is a female, she presents as a female, but claims she's male. She could kill a business with fines just because she's an attention seeker.
Real trans-sexuals aren't the problem/issue. It's the gender trenders, gender terrorists and all the other ass clowns.
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Gay marriage is very bad for gay people. As a gay man, I support your right to marry, but you're not getting the bigger picture of how this really hurts people in general, because you don't understand the law, or how the government works, and most gay people just don't get it. This really should have been a first amendment issue, that you have the right to religious freedom and therefor you have the right to marry who you choose (because marriage is a religious institution), but you guys didn't make it about that because you don't understand the Constitution.
Let's say you go out to get your license to marry… Just like you would get a license to practice medicine, or a license to practice law, or a license to hunt or fish, or a license to drive, or even a license to smoke marijuana, etc. A license requires PERMISSION, and this is the difference between FREEDOM and LIBERTY. In order to get a LICENSE, you have to APPLY. Application or Apply means in LAW to BEG for PERMISSION. Now you will notice that when you APPLY for a JOB you get it and you are not given the FREEDOM to work there. You are given the LIBERTY to work there. Liberty is what a sailor gets when he asks for permission to leave the ship. He doesn't have the freedom to leave. It's very different, because the government cannot give you a license to rape, murder, or steal. They can only give you a license to do things that are already LAWFUL to do, meaning you never needed permission, hence the reason gay people were already getting married before this all happened and you thought you were being given freedoms but in fact you were simply begging for permission to do things you already lawfully had the right to do.
It astounds me and I am ashamed of my gay family who doesn't get these basic concepts because all they do is go out to the raves at Miami Beach and act like they know everything when in reality all they know is victimhood culture and pretend that they are just poor persecuted souls - the lack of wisdom is your weakness - you don't understand how the government works. And that's why it's taken this long to even get where we are, which is in the wrong place, still.
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This is why you MORONS need to stop bashing Trump. Clinton passed the Defense of Marriage Act! She's just pandering to get you into the system of PERMISSION to marry. Why the HELL do you think you need a LICENSE to marry??? You need a LICENSE??? What is wrong with you??? These guys know what they're talking about and you thinking that they did some great human rights act is ridiculous. You need to understand what's really going on, because you clearly don't. They're locking you into their prison where you are the slave who needs to beg for permission to use your first amendment, and Trump is saying it should be a state's rights issue, that's all. I am astounded by how stupid my gay family is, it's Truly embarrassing.
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Ah mhorndisk back to the same old name calling tactics and pissing on Hillary I see.
If, as you said, you support other gay men's right to marry, then just shut it and end there. No one is forcing you to get married. You're free to do as you see fit- and that is what everyone else has been fighting for- the chance to live the life they CHOOSE- which is to get married or not.
Speaking as a gay man coming from a country where we're denied the right to get married, it saddens me that you can't seem to appreciate how good you've got it over there. In my country people don't recognize the relationships that I get into. I may not be in a serious relationship now, but it would be nice to have the OPTION to marry the man I finally wind up wanting to spend the rest of my life with.
There's power in symbolism and ritual- and marriage is one such ritual and symbol that society places value on- and straight couples here have the right to demand respect and privileges for their relationships that I could never do. So, don't wait until someone takes away your rights before you begin to appreciate them.
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Real trans-sexuals aren't the problem/issue. It's the gender trenders, gender terrorists and all the other ass clowns.
Of course not.
In my admittedly limited experience, all the honest, uncontrived, "real" trans people that I've known personally can't stand these utterly fucking impossible "trans trender" and "gender terrorist" types. Because "real" transgender/LGBTXYZ individuals don't build their whole identity/ego around "being trans" or "being LGBTBBQ". They actually have lives and substantial personalities outside of that. That, and a halfway decent sense of humor.
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Ah mhorndisk back to the same old name calling tactics and pissing on Hillary I see.
If, as you said, you support other gay men's right to marry, then just shut it and end there. No one is forcing you to get married. You're free to do as you see fit- and that is what everyone else has been fighting for- the chance to live the life they CHOOSE- which is to get married or not.
Speaking as a gay man coming from a country where we're denied the right to get married, it saddens me that you can't seem to appreciate how good you've got it over there. In my country people don't recognize the relationships that I get into. I may not be in a serious relationship now, but it would be nice to have the OPTION to marry the man I finally wind up wanting to spend the rest of my life with.
There's power in symbolism and ritual- and marriage is one such ritual and symbol that society places value on- and straight couples here have the right to demand respect and privileges for their relationships that I could never do. So, don't wait until someone takes away your rights before you begin to appreciate them.
Well I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about here in America where people need to recognize that they aren't getting the FREEDOM to marry, they are BEGGING for PERMISSION, when they already have the lawful right to do so, and if they just understood that, it wouldn't be a problem, but nobody cares about that, which is why it has taken this long. We are slowly degrading from a free society to a bunch of slaves and that is BIGGER and more important.
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Not sure that gay marriage is bad for gay people, but I know being pro-discrimination or even hinting at being pro-discrimination is bad for business. Just ask those who lost out on so much in North Carolina. Don't you love living in a capitalist society where we can also vote with our dollars? :cheers:
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Yup, even if it feels like we are going backwards - I think we are all moving forward. Unless we get into a major war and change our planet for good.
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Of course the GOP is not going to "move on" from same sex marriage. The GOP does not understand the concept of "moving on". Abortion was decided in the 1970's- have they "moved on" about that? Freedom of Religion, where Christianity is NOT on a pedestal, was settled in 1776- did the GOP "move on" about that?
The GOP is a hate group, period.
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Ridiculous to say that the GOP is a hate group when the Democratic Party founded the KKK. The only reason black people switched in the South was because FDR (democrat) said he would make sure they all had jobs. The black people hated the idea of getting into bed with the KKK but they did it anyway because they felt it was their only option. The GOP is hateful to gay people, yes, but the democrats are no better. This left wing right wing baloney is nonsense. Trump is not a Republican. He only ran as one because Hillary had the Democrat ticket and running as Independent would have landed him nowhere, as you all know. Hillary praised Margaret Sanger, who claimed that black people were weeds and needed to be eradicated, and you actually voted for that bitch. Horrible. All Trump said was that gay marriage should be a State's Issue, not a fascistly decided concept by the Supreme Court. Mind you, the Supreme Court doesn't actually have the authority to interpret the law, that's left to the Jury, to invalidate, nullify, and void laws they don't agree with. The judge is merely a referee. You cannot force everyone and all the states to go along with your viewpoint just because of some judge's interpretation of the law. Forcing people to recognize your homo-wedding is turning you into exactly the kind of person you have fought against for so long. Force is what is not good. Let people make up their own minds, they're going to judge you regardless. Just be a good person and quit trying to make everyone go along with your victimhood mentality.
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And Trump literally destroyed the GOP, and all those like Lindsey Graham, Geb Bush, John McCain, and you guys don't appreciate that??? It's insanity! Don't you realize he doesn't work for them? Gosh dang. SO Embarrassing that you guys can be THAT dense. He didn't destroy the Democrats, they destroyed themselves. With Hillary taking almost a billion dollars from the Haiti fund for "administrative costs," and just letting her buddies come in and do business. Do you even know anything about Haiti? The people HATE Hillary. They know what she did and you guys just cry all day about your gay wedding. Man, these people are being ripped the fuck off and you guys just wanna be about oh well Trump doesn't go to my gay wedding. How dare you for being so damn stupid!
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Trump hasn't destroyed the GOP. He has humiliated them but the GOP will turn on Trump in a heartbeat and happily throw him out of office. They would much rather have Pence anyway. They are just waiting for him to commit an impeachable offense. I'm sure he has already. We just don't know about it yet.
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Trump hasn't destroyed the GOP. He has humiliated them but the GOP will turn on Trump in a heartbeat and happily throw him out of office. They would much rather have Pence anyway. They are just waiting for him to commit an impeachable offense. I'm sure he has already. We just don't know about it yet.
This is true, they simply are waiting for him to do something so terrible that they'll be forced to turn on him. There's already a few who have jumped ship lately and we all remember how they were ready to abandon him when the "grab 'em by the meow" tape came out lol. They were all running around like :crazy2: until he won the election, which is proof their support of him is fickle.
The Republicans aren't destroyed, but he has made them significantly unpopular. We just don't know what it means since the Democrats also are significantly unpopular. We're back to the usual situation: low turnout in the midterms will help the Republicans and high turnout will result in Democrats winning a lot. What we all can agree on is there can be no more North Carolina bathroom bill situations because social issues haven't been Republicans' strong suit since the 1950s. Stick to talking about tax cuts and removing regulations on businesses to create more jobs because messing with the LGBT community in 2017 will put you in the North Carolina situation. Is Pat McCrory still governor or did he lose?? :cheers:
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Why would he do something impeachable? Let's not reach for straws, he knows the law and he knows you're watching, so it ain't going to happen. And the point is IT HASN'T. He is going to be good, so now it's time to look at Hillary's crimes, when she clearly was guilty of everything Comey said, but then said she was "ok." Let's go after the people who have actually broken the law. It wasn't a mistake that Hillary actually had a private server in her bathroom and sent classified information. It was in her BATHROOM for God sakes! She knew what she was doing!
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Why would he do something impeachable? Let's not reach for straws, he knows the law and he knows you're watching, so it ain't going to happen. And the point is IT HASN'T. He is going to be good, so now it's time to look at Hillary's crimes, when she clearly was guilty of everything Comey said, but then said she was "ok." Let's go after the people who have actually broken the law. It wasn't a mistake that Hillary actually had a private server in her bathroom and sent classified information. It was in her BATHROOM for God sakes! She knew what she was doing!
:crazy2:
