4 in custody after mentally disabled man tied up, tortured on Facebook Live
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In fact what I'm saying is: why are people making this more complicated than it HAS to be? The 4 people are guilty of a hate crime. They should be condemned, and punished, no question. That's it- end of story. The mistake is expanding it to include everyone else with the same skin color. THAT is complicating it pointlessly.
Again- if a (white/black/insert color here) person robbed your house, and you catch him. Does his skin color mean all persons of that color should be condemned because of his actions?
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because what you are missing here and probably because we live in very different countries: the sub problem about that is immigration and how well or bad we failed to integrate these people. Immigration from africa is quite new over here . every country has its own history and culture, you cant copy/paste ways of thinking to every country just like that.
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First- let me say that I appreciate that you engage in a rational manner without letting emotions take over. I tend to avoid/be wary of these political threads because they tend to devolve quickly into name calling, outbursts, thumbs downs and general ill will.
Yes we come from different countries, and immigration is not as big an issue for us over here as it is for many Western countries. I understand that- and yes there are clashes of culture- and to be clear- I agree that it's the responsibility of the immigrants to adjust and adapt to the place they have chosen to live in. While the natives would try to teach them, and help them adjust. No problems there.
The problem comes in when we fall into the trap of overgeneralizing. The point I've been trying to make is that laws are laws no matter what country you are in- and you need to follow the laws of the land. And the guilty should be punished- if a person breaks the law (whether you're an immigrant or not) you answer for it and pay the price. Just the guilty person. NOT everyone else who happens to share their ethnicity/race/gender or whatnot.
That's all I'm saying. Don't expand the criminal act of SOME, and use it to condemn ALL.
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you answer for it and pay the price.
trouble is although law should be the same for all it's not. judges are way too merciful if your profile fit their political views (aka ethnicity, most judge are leftist over here) hence people get angry. you get huge difference of punishment for acts based on who committed them. So that nourishes hate of course.
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@gaypraha2 I sympathize with your terrible experience having been attacked on several occasions by Black people. In a way, I can understand why you feel the way you do.
But the point I'm making is that we need to avoid over-generalizing because it's just plain wrong and contributes to an atmosphere of fear and hate. And that's something none of us want. At least no reasonable person would want. It's not about half empty or half full glasses- it's about placing blame on the right people and not spreading it to others just because they happen to have the same skin color.
Case in point- did I understand you right in that you are saying ALL terrorists on your soil are Muslim? What about Timothy McVeigh? He wasn't Muslim.
Also- since this was about avoiding making things about race- the point I'm making is that it would be a terrible mistake to condemn all the members of an entire race based on the actions of a few. Let's stick to the facts- These X people are guilty of a crime and that's it. They should answer for it, no more no less.YET, I have to suffer from extreme white guilt or I'm a racist because of what a small portion of the white population (KKK) did.
Blacks don't have to suffer from black guilt for anything someone black does. Can we say HYPOCRITICAL?
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That's all I'm saying. Don't expand the criminal act of SOME, and use it to condemn ALL.
Feminists use/used an analogy to show why ALL men are never to be trusted;
There's a bowl of M&Ms on the table and 10% of them are poison. Are you willing to take a handful and eat them?
When this got used against muslims, SJWs of all ilks lost their minds.
There is also a pattern of violence from the left, that we don't see coming from the right. Not only is there a pattern of violence coming from the left, there is also a pattern of falsely claiming to be a victim of right-wing violence.
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That's all I'm saying. Don't expand the criminal act of SOME, and use it to condemn ALL.
Feminists use/used an analogy to show why ALL men are never to be trusted;
There's a bowl of M&Ms on the table and 10% of them are poison. Are you willing to take a handful and eat them?
When this got used against muslims, SJWs of all ilks lost their minds.
There is also a pattern of violence from the left, that we don't see coming from the right. Not only is there a pattern of violence coming from the left, there is also a pattern of falsely claiming to be a victim of right-wing violence.
First off, I'm not siding with the left or right in this issue. The fact is BOTH sides are guilty of extremist stances. To answer your earlier point: No, you aren't responsible for the KKK nor should you suffer for what they did. The only guilt you should feel is what you CHOOSE to feel for it. Some people feel guilty for those actions, some don't- neither is right or wrong. It's a CHOICE that no one can force on you. And no- choosing not to feel guilty for the actions of those people doesn't make you a racist.
As for the bowl of M&M's with a percentage poisoned- you just described what is true for your day to day interactions with strangers. It's a risk EVERYONE deals with every single day as long as you are dealing with strangers or even acquaintances. There will always be a percentage of people who will lie, or cheat, or steal, or commit whatever crime you can imagine. Is there a magic formula to tell you who will treat you well and who will stab you in the back? No. That bowl is the chance you take every single day as you live your life.
The problem is when you single out people based on race, or gender or whatnot. Then you're being unfair and prejudiced. The truth is, the so called 'poison' is true for both sides. Your statements seem to be focused on demonizing the left and clearing the right of any and all wrongdoing.
The last part of your statement is just outright biased. I won't get into it with you. All I will say is neither side can claim to be totally clean or totally free from violence. Please don't insult our intelligence by claiming that all violence comes from the left and the right is all sweetness and hugs.
Oh- and to touch briefly on another can of worms- don't get me started on feminists and the extreme stance of SOME of them that ALL men are pigs. Of course that's ridiculous. But to be fair about it- there is also the men's movement Red Pill and MGTOW which claims ALL women are gold diggers who take advantage and abuse men.
What's their same mistake? Making a blanket statement demonizing one side beyond all reason or reality. Both sides are guilty.
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I never said the right is innocent, but we are seeing a lot of violence and lies from the left that we don't see from the right.
Even Clinton News Network admitted that political sign stealing was a very one sided thing in the run-up to the election.
We know all about the "whites go around" thing, but when was the "blacks go around" protest? If there was a "blacks go around" protest, the police would have put an end to it immediately and made arrests, unlike what we saw with the "whites go around" protest.
We always hear about "white privilege", but no one wants to talk about black privilege.
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Very glad that the justice system in America worked this time. Despicable people. This is a hate crime done and dusted, everyone said it would be and it was. The criminals have been prosecuted.
As a black person, it's hard not to notice the general difference when stories like this:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/20/idaho-football-coat-hanger-rape-teammate-john-rk-howard
Aren't covered at nearly the same amount - and the criminals here weren't charged of a hate crime and haven't been giving any jail time yet to my knowledge. Maybe this situation will allow more light to be shed on this recent issue too. -
@raphjd Not sure what you've been reading, but I've been seeing this story everywhere.
YEAH, it only became a news story at least 12 hours after the local Fox station reported it.
You're also wrong about President Obama, he called this situation disgusting.
His assistant Press Secretary did. When did Obama? "I'm sure he would agree" by the APS isn't the same as Obama saying it. Did Obama race bait it like he does when the races are reversed?
It is disgusting and I'm so grateful that the four people who committed this hateful act have been arrested. However, it is worth noting that they actually were arrested and no one had to march or beg the authorities to investigate. It's sad but we all know had this been four white people attacking a black disabled teen, thousands of black and white people (disabled and able-bodied) would've had to march just to get investigation started and then get the NAACP involved to actually pressure the authorities into charging the attackers.
Do you mean like Tawana Brawley?
When James Byrd, Jr. was murdered by those white supremacists, it took the federal government headed by Bill Clinton at the time to get justice for the hate crime that took his life, and it took a lot of people getting involved to have the white men charged. The state of Texas barely wanted to do an investigation. And he was decapitated by those white supremacists, not just beaten.
I lived in Houston at the time and I think you have a distorted view of the case to fit your narrative. He as decapitated as part of the dragging behind the truck.
It was the Jasper County DA that called in the feds because the suspects were known white supremacists. The FBI is best suited at these types of crimes.
You can deny it but we've just witnessed situations within the past few years where black and other people of color have been attacked and it has taken the action of protesters to get charges filed, even in situations where camera footage is present. With that being said, this situation is awful and once again thank goodness the criminals who committed it have actually been arrested and charged with hate crimes.
Are you referring to the cases where it was black on black crime and no one is cooperating with the police? It's always fun watching blacks getting pissing about the lack of police solving crimes in black areas, while blacks refuse to cooperate with investigations.
It's great how you skipped over my point to make your own point. THESE 4 PEOPLE WERE ARRESTED AND CHARGED, WHEREAS IN MANY INSTANCES OF WHITE ON BLACK VIOLENCE, IT TAKES MARCHES AND PROTESTS TO GET CHARGES. Look at what happened last year in Louisiana when that white man shot that former NFL player. The cops let him go and it took people getting involved to have him arrested and charged for an incident that has happened more than twice with that white man. My other point is, states are capable of handling hate crime issues BUT SOME DO NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE FAULTY STATE LAWS RELATED TO HATE CRIMES; especially states in the South. Hmm, I wonder why that is. Is it because of what the South is known for? Stop trying to rewrite history buddy, it doesn't suit you very well.
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I'm grateful that this teen is alive after this vicious attack. Too bad the same can't be said about the 9 innocent black lives taken in my home state by white pride activist Dylann Roof. They're dead and there will be no coming back or healing for them. My state still hasn't built a case ready for trial for him either. The federal government had to prosecute him whereas the state was ready to let him out on $1 million bail, which the KKK and various other white pride groups raised for him quickly.
He was convicted on all charges. So what are you talking about? Wednesday, 4 Jan 2017, was the start of the sentencing phase.
According to Wikipedia, he is also awaiting trial in South Carolina. He's also the 1st person in the US to be facing the death penalty in both state and federal court on the same charges.
He was originally to be tried in South Carolina, but the feds pushed in and got their case first.
Please do a bit of research before you make all these racist conspiracy theories.
Listen, I LIVE HERE. You do not. Do not tell me what is right and wrong about that case because you have no idea what the day to day has been in South Carolina since that incident happened. Got it? Another thing, my point was to show the state of South Carolina was ready to give him a $1 million dollar bail. What do you think would've happened had Donald Trump been president and Jeff Sessions was Attorney General when this happened? Would they have said let the state of South Carolina handle it? The things I have heard from white people in this state about this case has been truly disgusting and disheartening. I love this state and I truly do not want to live anywhere else, but things need to change. It is time for change. Why do you think Dylann Roof did what he did? His own words prove that he did it for white pride.
Lastly, how dare you? Seriously, how dare you? Those people are dead. Like I said, thank God the young man in Chicago is alive but for the people who DIED in Charleston, they don't have that opportunity. I am not going to let you minimize their deaths because they were black. If that's what you are trying to do then you are sicker than I thought. Please do not be that disgusting.
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LOL, such historionics.
I gave you facts about the case that apparently you are too blinded by racist conspiracy theories to see.
You are using the death of those people to shut down the conversation, to further your racist worldview.
Who gives a fuck if it's the state or the feds that prosecute racists?! As long as the cunt(s) are punished, all's good.
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Very glad that the justice system in America worked this time. Despicable people. This is a hate crime done and dusted, everyone said it would be and it was. The criminals have been prosecuted.
As a black person, it's hard not to notice the general difference when stories like this:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/20/idaho-football-coat-hanger-rape-teammate-john-rk-howard
Aren't covered at nearly the same amount - and the criminals here weren't charged of a hate crime and haven't been giving any jail time yet to my knowledge. Maybe this situation will allow more light to be shed on this recent issue too.Well, the head of Chicago PD was desperate not to class the latest attack as a hate crime. Don Lemon and Symone Sanders have been adamant that it wasn't a hate crime since they are black. You know, blacks can't commit hate crimes.
The football player case is tough because we don't know if it was a hate crime or not. It's definiately a sex crime, but I'm unsure of the motive. Maybe it was revenge for the victim snitching that the criminal was smoking behind the equalipment locker. No hate crime there.
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Aside from the fact that the perpetrators have obviously tried to make this about race, I'd like to ask why people are falling for it? ???
There are always those, no matter what skin color, who'd like to make things about race, and I feel it's a mistake to fall for that kind of trap.
The hate crime is heinous and deserves to be condemned- but it's ridiculous to condemn ALL black people of being racists just as it's a mistake to label ALL white people of being racists just because the KKK existed.
Just like people try to label ALL gays as being pedophiles because of some incidents…the list can go on and on.
The crime was committed by the guilty people, regardless of race, or age or gender. We don't need to condemn everyone for the actions of some.
Well said….. THANKS
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The question I have after reading about this story and seeing it on all the news stations is that over 1600 people were watching this live via facebook. Why on earth didn't anyone contact the police to try to help this young man, who we now know is mentally challenged as well as being only 18yrs old. What kind of sick people were watching this live and doing nothing to stop it? From what I heard this happened over a 48 hr period and the police only found out about it once the young man escaped. As far as I'm concerned all the people who watched it live on facebook and did nothing to help this young man are just as guilty of this crime as the persons actively carrying it out. When I hear about things like this I thank God I'm not American.
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Very glad that the justice system in America worked this time. Despicable people. This is a hate crime done and dusted, everyone said it would be and it was. The criminals have been prosecuted.
As a black person, it's hard not to notice the general difference when stories like this:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/20/idaho-football-coat-hanger-rape-teammate-john-rk-howard
Aren't covered at nearly the same amount - and the criminals here weren't charged of a hate crime and haven't been giving any jail time yet to my knowledge. Maybe this situation will allow more light to be shed on this recent issue too.Well, the head of Chicago PD was desperate not to class the latest attack as a hate crime. Don Lemon and Symone Sanders have been adamant that it wasn't a hate crime since they are black. You know, blacks can't commit hate crimes.
The football player case is tough because we don't know if it was a hate crime or not. It's definiately a sex crime, but I'm unsure of the motive. Maybe it was revenge for the victim snitching that the criminal was smoking behind the equalipment locker. No hate crime there.
Citation needed.
Also didn't know Don Lemoon and Symone Sanders are the voice of the media and black people everywhere.The Chicago PD was 'desperate' to class it has a hate crime? Where did he say that?
I think you're desperate to be the victim here. -
Citation needed for what exactly?
Chicago PD was desperate NOT to class this as a hate crime. For evidence of that, go back and watch the videos of the press conferences they gave.
Don Lemon and Symone Sanders are the SJW media darlings. Hell, we even have blacks here on this site claiming that blacks can't be racist and whatnot.
You are right, there are decent black people that admit that blacks can be racist and commit hate crimes.
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Very glad that the justice system in America worked this time. Despicable people. This is a hate crime done and dusted, everyone said it would be and it was. The criminals have been prosecuted.
As a black person, it's hard not to notice the general difference when stories like this:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/20/idaho-football-coat-hanger-rape-teammate-john-rk-howard
Aren't covered at nearly the same amount - and the criminals here weren't charged of a hate crime and haven't been giving any jail time yet to my knowledge. Maybe this situation will allow more light to be shed on this recent issue too.Well, the head of Chicago PD was desperate not to class the latest attack as a hate crime. Don Lemon and Symone Sanders have been adamant that it wasn't a hate crime since they are black. You know, blacks can't commit hate crimes.
The football player case is tough because we don't know if it was a hate crime or not. It's definiately a sex crime, but I'm unsure of the motive. Maybe it was revenge for the victim snitching that the criminal was smoking behind the equalipment locker. No hate crime there.
"The victim was called racial epithets such as “watermelon”, “chicken-eater”, and “nigger”, and Howard taunted the victim with a “Ku Klux Klan” song, the lawsuit alleged."
Yep. No Hate crime. Sure.
I want a link to where Don Lemon says its not a hate crime and Symone Sanders saying it's not a hate crime.
You can interpret press briefings however way you want. I want a quote.
