The rise of campophobia
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Why does there seem to be such an increase in rejecting campness?
Andy West The Indepedent
What would you expect the most common phrases on gay dating sites to be?
Don't answer that you bigot. I'll tell you. They are as follows…
'Straight acting.'
'Non-scene.'
'No camp guys please.'
'Real blokes only.'
Time and time again, you see the same sentiment popping up and revealing the harsh truth: a lot of gay men don't fancy camp guys. And I, though I'm uncomfortable admitting it, am one of them.
A very cute-looking bloke messaged me on POF (The Plenty of Fish dating site – catch up!) last night. He seems clever, interesting, funny, caring, driven and fit. But he has a certain…way about him. There’s something about his plucked eyebrows, polished skin and, what is it? His posture? His…smile? His cravat? That tells me he might not be the most masculine of men. My interest droops. I chastise myself…and then delete his message anyway.
I can’t date camp guys. I've tried it. Only recently I showed up at a pub, excitedly scanning the packed room for the tall, broad-shouldered mountain-climber from the profile photographs. I recognised him instantly when he appeared but...I don't know...it was as though he was a marionet puppet of the bloke I'd imagined, only with his strings being handled by a dove. His hips swung, his head lolled to the side, he held his wine glass delicately at the stem and his voice was high and soft. He was a beautiful man with bright green eyes, tanned skin and brown hair and he was clearly kind and intelligent. I would gladly have chatted to him for hours but...I didn't want anything more.
Why do I feel so awful saying that? I can state that I don’t fancy very short men or very fat men or men with beards or men who wear jumpers from Next with a little bit of T-shirt stitched in but I can’t say that I don’t find 'femme' men attractive? Why not? It can’t be homophobic because lots of gay men aren’t at all camp. And saying I don't like gay men is like saying Mary Berry hates cake. No it isn't homophobic to find camp men unattractive. Perhaps it's…campophobic.
Before going any further, it's worth taking a moment to ponder what camp actually means. Is it the way you move and talk or is it also your musical tastes and personal interests? Giraffes are camp: For the sake of argument, I'll have to define it as behaving in a flamboyant and effeminate fashion. Do you agree? Do I care?
You can be straight and camp of course. I don't find those men attractive either. Effeminate heterosexual men like Lawrence Llewelyn Bowen and George Osborne are no more attractive to me than effeminate gay men like Alan Carr or Julian Clary. It's the campness that switches me off, you see, not the sexuality.
I just fancy men who act like...men. That alone is a clumsy thing to say, I know. I suppose what I mean is, men who like cars and play football and talk in deep voices and drink pints. Is my preference genetic or chemical or is it the result of social pressure? Those of you who have read my article on bullying will know that I was painfully self-aware as a boy and I did try not to behave in a 'girly' way around other boys. Am I rejecting feminine men because I was taught at school that acting queer is embarrassing and shameful? And, if so, is that what other guys on dating sites are doing too? Or is it merely that I find men attractive and the more manly they are, the more I like them? My mum likes chocolate. Therefore, triple chocolate fudge cake with chocolate icing and chocolate shavings in chocolate sauce is more appealing than a Caramac.
Being serious, I genuinely think there's something troubling...pernicious...about campophobia. It has seeped well beyond the realms of simple attraction. It reflects the new way in which the gay world regards itself. Post-campist culture prides itself on being normal. Loud and proud gay guys are an anathema to that.
So now I often hear gay men belittling camp men in just the same way that straight men have attacked homosexuals for centuries; ever since the first homo sapien refused to go hunting until someone helped him set up a series link for Hollyoaks on Tivo. A date said to me the other evening: 'Why would I fancy camp guys? If I wanted to date women, I'd be straight.' What does that mean for camp men? That they're not allowed to be male just because of their voice or their mannerisms and facial expressions? It seems a somewhat nasty sentiment to me, but I do hear it regularly. I might not be turned on by camp blokes but I don't see them as de-sexed. I have only dated two camp men in the past but both were steely, determined, single-minded, brash confident and – it must be said – aggressive. On paper, aren't those traits masculine?
It's a vein of prejudice that runs through the whole of society. How often have straight people said to me: 'I wouldn't have known you were gay because you don't act it!'? Or, as one friend at university said: 'It's okay you being gay because you're not at all queer.' It's okay to be gay, it seems, as long as you don't act gay. And that rule increasingly applies on the 'gay scene' as much as anywhere else. I find that worrying. We shouldn't be ridiculing one another. We are a band of incestuous brothers. Sticking together is what we do best.
So maybe I should delete the line; 'Likes straight-acting' from my dating profile. I'm a hypocrite anyway because, like 90% of gay men who claim to be blokey, I am - in 100 subtle ways - very camp indeed. Just press the trigger and out it pops from under the supposedly butch façade like Kenneth Williams tumbling from a Jeep. Sure, we 'non-scene' guys walk and talk like most other men. And yes, we run around parks all manly-like. But, if you dashed past in the other direction with a Laura Ashley cushion we would be on your tail like a pack of greyhounds.
Well it is all academic anyway. I can't help myself. I will continue to hide my camper side on dates by wearing baggy jumpers and jogging pants and drinking cheap, tasteless faux-Australian lager because, frankly, it goes down a storm. And I can't make myself fancy camp men any more than I can make myself fancy Inuits (something to do with the igloos). Perhaps I should try to be less shallow and look at the person inside rather than the shell. Problem is, we are dealing with sexual partners, not eggs. This isn't the 1990s anymore and I think most of us now accept that sexual attraction exists, is important, and to discount it is to deny a wonderful and important part of who we are.
So I shall continue to be campophobic on the dating scene, in spite of my own discomfort. After all, I pay a high price. Masculine blokes might be cheeky, sexy and fun but they are also often selfish, sex-obsessed, unreliable bastards. I continue to date. Offers gratefully received. Straight-acting only.
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Yeah it seems you do have a certain vision of what a man is, otherwise you would not say that straight acting men are more of the quantity man. It all boils down to what makes a man, a man.
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@uicuic ~ The author of this article may happen to have a certain view on this topic. I have not expressed my opinion in any way ~ yet that is.
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Ok, i missed your credit at the beginning.
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ihihihihihihihihih bears a gay dongiovanni would have there a good lough :hehe:
Madamiiino il catalogo è questo delli belli che amò il padron miooo… Un cataaaaaaalooogo egl'èèèèèè che ho fatt'iio..... :lolp:
hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INF9r5jju0A****
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ihihihihihihihihih bears a gay dongiovanni would have there a good l**Augh :hehe:
Madamiiino il catalogo è questo delli belli che amò il padron miooo… Un cataaaaaaalooogo egl'èèèèèè che ho fatt'iio..... :lolp:
hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INF9r5jju0A
"lough" poor ol' mole
:cry2:****** -
"He was a beautiful man with bright green eyes, tanned skin and brown hair and he was clearly kind and intelligent. I would gladly have chatted to him for hours but…I didn't want anything more."
Yeah but he rembered every detail even the plucked eyebrow... I'd say he was interested but yes since he was forced into the macho stand he can't accept a non macho behaviour, it's the mirror effect you dislike in others what you can't stand in yourself... and he admits he knows he is not all that macho, but alas he also states that he is just not interested he does not bash them, my really huge concern his calling the average not butch joe (it has went beyound the femme already it's every gay which is not in straight trend) a women... all I can say to those people is, well for straight guys you are a fucking little girl too... it's the cycle of hatred, people forced you and you try to force me, except I'm way over your bitchyness.
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perhaps it is the biology of it where your driven to looking for the alpha-male type? As to provide security
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perhaps it is the biology of it where your driven to looking for the alpha-male type? As to provide security
i would agree :police:
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Had to look twice at the quote about the man who did not women or men who were like them, because I have said that more than once myself. Also not interested in transitioned individuals, for that matter.
Having said that after a long silence on this thread, I will create a new topic to ask a similar question.
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I do not mind camp or effeminate men but I'm just not attracted to them. It certainly isn't hate, just lack of sexual interest.
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I don't know if there's a rise of campophobia, but campophobia definitely exists. Maybe it's because of what's shown to us in porn today and/or maybe people's taste have changed a little bit. Most of the popular porn stars on big websites like Randyblue, Falcon, Sean Cody & Men.com are the ones who are considered 'manly beasts'. I feel like in the 90s there were more popular porn stars that were definitely men but still had that 'delicate flower' attribute that was considered sexy; like Joey Stefano or Derek Cameron, for example. I personally like all types of men, camp or not.
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For my 2 cents, I would credit Social Evolution. As one of the others commented, the taste in actors has appeared to shift over the last decade or two. As public attitude has begun to shift, and acceptance has been on the rise, the community feels more at ease trying to be "normal". In the past, Camp was often a way to find others of a like interest, or to "hide" in plain sight.
Over the last hundred years, the way to meet the "right kind" has changed, and finally doesn't have to be kept hidden away. From secret clubs, to language code (friend of Dorothy, anyone?), to acting in certain ways. By the 50's, movies and the beginning of TV, our community was seen as being the comic relief. Jokes about the Bachelor Uncle, who was a little funny, were widely seen. Being credited with having the creative souls, we of course adopted every bad trait that the entertainment world could come up with, and then took it a step further. This is much the same as African Americans adopting all of the bad traits from movies and TV (Martin Lawrence, Whazzaup).
As we have begun to see the wider social changes, we are now looking at becoming more of a non-item, and not having to create a stir, just to be accepted for who we are. Rejecting the more Camp members of our community is merely another step in our Social Evolution.
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Rejecting camp is not my idea of "social evolution." More like the kind of bigotry that thinks "real men" can change a car tire. How about "real men" can dance all night? Harrison Ford supported himself doing carpentry until he became a star. No idea what Fred Astaire did, or William Powell, who was the most elegant man on the silver screen– ever-- without dancing. What about George Sanders? Suave, debonair, elegant no longer seem to count as "manly," huh?
It was at the Stonewall riots where the drag queens changed our world by not giving in to paid-off police. The battle cry from some brave, fed up queen was, "Save our sisters!"
Many years ago there was a man who advertised for sex, asking for "druggies, cross-dresses, queens, no serious men wanted." Report says he met one hella fine array of great men. Not my choice, but neither is the large old stranger in my mirror who is still trying to figure out who he is, after all these years, but "a man's a man for a' that," said Bobby Burns, quite correctly. (He also said "Nine Inch Will Please a Lady," not thinking that men might be a more comfortable fit...
Sergeant Swann, the original and most famous gay Marine porn star, once told me that they all wanted to bottom. Lots of str8 men married to women are out there asking for a chance to bottom while otherwise preferring pussy, which apparently does not always scratch an itch for them. People do what they do, and we make judgments that are more about us than about them.
Yes, queers were long a figure of fun, perhaps the only way we could be portrayed safely on screen. At least then there was a private sense of community, and gay bars were not full of women, but places of respite. As we have all grown older and dudes are not necessarily born in a heavily fortified closet, it turns out that a site like this reveals there is supposedly much interest in fat old men, whether called chubs, bears, or daddies. And while one trend is to shave the body and look prepubescent and better endowed, another trend is to embrace a flourishing bush, shaggy pits, and manly beard. In fact, scruff, goatees, and full beards turn up regularly in adverts on the electronic television machine. Apparently displaying the effect of male hormones on your face is considered sexy.
I was the first man I knew of my own age who grew a mustache, and it's probably older than you are. Now, they are as common in crowd scenes and real life as men in military uniforms were in 40s movies, or smoking on television. Or drinking on the telly, for that matter. Things change, nos et mutamur in illis, as the man said. "And we change with them." The new interest in fat geezers is great for some of us, and there cannot be a return any too fast to the Athenian ideal of the educated older man guiding a hot young horndog who rewards this kindly interest and socialization into the wider world by letting his mentor keep his balls well drained.
But anyone who thinks drag queens are all bottoms has been misinformed. And while I like full natural body hair, those straits who manscape to make themselves more available and attractive for sex and to help their partner keep hair from getting stuck in their teeth can also be seen as highly sexual beings devoting themselves to such details as an aide to breeder activities of one kind or another. And if You want to wear frilly underwear and can mange to pack your equipment inside, it is entirely possible to enjoy the contrast, the camouflage. Brad Pitt is not the only man who ever tucked his apparatus between his legs to amuse his girlfriend, but that doesn't make him a sissy in my book.
And there are people who prefer sissies, TV, TS, and so on. They may be str8s, like street people who get blown with their eyes closed and their hands locked behind their head in a position that says "Trade only." They may be transitioning and testing the waters. And as someone pointed out, perhaps in this thread, lots of str8s who become single, esp. later in life, are willing to seek out queers for purposes of easy accommodation, suddenly becoming "bi-curious."
Guess what that really means is that sexual activity is situational, and depends what you can get, what is easiest to get, and how horny and/or drunk you are. Now we just have to work on getting those dudes to stop being ashamed, embarrassed, fearful, or otherwise resistant and help move everyone along to a full time celebration of the orgasm as a good in and of itself, not just for individuals, but for society. (See Reich, Wilhelm.)
Anyway, I think it is a mistake to think that an end to camp is progress. Maybe it means there is less need to hide or disguise masculine lust as silly and frivolous rather than raunchy. Maybe it means some people like to appear available to more macho types. When encouraged and practiced, the principle of "each to his own," also helps boost the convenience and hedonism of t"he more the better."
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Going back to this now, I think this is on the leave now, thanks to rupaul drag race in a way and the aging of the straight acting crew, I can't really again satirize the pint that masculinity is a plural ideal… and what a person might call a fine man might not be in my book, as much as it was in Stonewall the "camp and femme" that actually did something, it takes a lot more of masculinity to be camp in a dumbed down society that can only interprer it as a joke.
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it takes a lot more of masculinity to be camp in a dumbed down society that can only interprer it as a joke.
And let's be fair: not only straights interpret those camp guys as a joke; many gay guys do it as well, which is very sad. I always say that gay guys should know better, but instead they have all those prejudices other people also have. I don't deny the existence of 'preference', but doesn't it tell us something that so many gay guys have this 'preference' for 'masculine' guys, and choose to express that preference so aggressivelly in apps such as Grindr, by saying 'fems gtfo' and things like that? As it was said before: its way easier to deal with prejudice if you look masculine and only hang out with other masculine guys… in other words: if you disguise yourself and try to look invisible, to look 'more straight'. Well but I'll say that: if people don't like camp guys sexually, the least they can do is respect them... because they are much more responsible for gay visibility, and suffer much more prejudice then all those 'invisible gays'.
