Gay and Muslim
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Ok.
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I think religion should be empowering and not limiting. Nature does not follow any religion.
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Of course someone can be gay and muslim, it depends on how the person involved understand religion and especially that God Loves people as we truly are. In my opinion, I think many muslim has distorted islam and changed the meaning of the quran. I also believe the quran has been modified by men because it has been millennium since it was written. It's better to focus about the fact judgment's God and forgiveness are fair, and muslim who will dictate behavior to other, they just fear what others may think and do not know what islam really is. It's between the believer and God, we are what we allow ourselves to be.
I'm an "extreme atheist asshole" in your eyes because I know the truth and accept it, as is.
You are a crappy muslim when you think that "the perfect word of god" can be interpreted by man in any way they want to suit their needs/whims. Then again, you are a good muslim in that you are willing to lie about your religion to make it seem better to non-believers, as commanded in the quran.
God doesn't exist.
They can't unless you ignore what their holy texts say about being gay.
Due to the left's racism of low expectations, muslims are wonderful people despite the way they treat/view gays.
"Islam is a religion of peace" is only true if you ignore all the violence it promotes, such as "kill all the infidels where ever you find them".
Sounds like we have an islamist.
LOL, you are so pathetic. You lie about what your holy texts say about homosexuality and I tell the truth, so you call me evil.
This is unacceptable to read so much hatred and the stigmatisation of muslims from someone who wants to force people to embrace his own beliefs, thinking every muslims are islamist. This is called islamophobia. Islam has so many different level of believers, it goes from progressism to extremism.We should rather be referring to Muslims, as groups of people, in order to avoid the essentialisation of Islam as a set of fixed ideas You are calling someone who argue with your "an islamist", a "pathetic person" while he just tried to argue peacefully. Are you aware of your behavior in this website ? In any other website you would have been banned because whatever what is your belief or ideology, you can't stigmatize people, insulting them while you seem to believe you are an innocent man "who knows the truth better than everyone". I guess you would rather spending your day bashing people on the web instead of having the wisdom to question your narcissism and your hateful mindset which you should do something about unless only lefties are capable of being "evil" according to you.
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I do love how lefties need to be liars to combat their enemies.
I never said that all muslims are islamists.
"Islamophobia" is just another word thrown around by the left and muslims to shut down any criticism of islam and/or muslims. According to liberals, stating that Mohamed married a 6yo and fucker her when she turned 9yo, is "islamophobia". Saying that slavery still exists in muslims countries, is "islamophobic". Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Clearly, islam is full of cherry pickers, who accept the bits they like and ignore the bits they don't like. So, it's just as bad as any other religion, despite the claims made in their holy text.
As usual, I have read the entire holy text, but "good" muslims want to tell me it says something completely different because they don't like all the bits in it. That is dishonesty in it's purist form. How is that any different to the "bad" muslims who ignore the bits they don't like?
Oh, I am well aware that I would be banned on most gay sites because I'm not blindly liberal. I'm not anti-semetic (nor pro), so I will get banned. I hate hoax hate crimes as much as I hate real hate crimes, so that would get me banned.
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I do love how lefties need to be liars to combat their enemies.
I never said that all muslims are islamists.
"Islamophobia" is just another word thrown around by the left and muslims to shut down any criticism of islam and/or muslims. According to liberals, stating that Mohamed married a 6yo and fucker her when she turned 9yo, is "islamophobia". Saying that slavery still exists in muslims countries, is "islamophobic". Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Clearly, islam is full of cherry pickers, who accept the bits they like and ignore the bits they don't like. So, it's just as bad as any other religion, despite the claims made in their holy text.
As usual, I have read the entire holy text, but "good" muslims want to tell me it says something completely different because they don't like all the bits in it. That is dishonesty in it's purist form. How is that any different to the "bad" muslims who ignore the bits they don't like?
Oh, I am well aware that I would be banned on most gay sites because I'm not blindly liberal. I'm not anti-semetic (nor pro), so I will get banned. I hate hoax hate crimes as much as I hate real hate crimes, so that would get me banned.
Please stop hiding behind politic when it's convenient for you. Do your psychological projection on others. Now, it's about me defending the fact you are bashing everyone without even being conscious of your own behavior, which you would be banned because you are not even respecting the rules, you are enjoying your admin status for you own benefit, far-right way of thinking ! It's wrong to call people islamist when they peacefully try to argue that everything is not black and white. It's wrong to distort the meaning of words like "fascism" because deep inside you, you probably know you are the one concerned about it. Being a racist doesn't prevent overcoming your own crap and learn about how we should embrace diversity. It's not about liberal or left stuff, how old are you please ? This is just a way to avoid the true meaning of your behaviour here and you shouldn't be allowed to exist here, at all. Are you aware you try to shape this website by your toxic hatred ? Islamophobia, anti-semitism, racism, xenophobia…, those terms have meaning you should not ignore, and instead of focusing yourself on judgng and insulting everyone here, you should just stop and have a little respect for others than yourself. I'am proud to be a "leftie" if that means I'm not like you, the product of so much hatred. Plus you keep on proving this almost everytime you share something here. You disgust me. Look at your face in the mirror, what is your purpose in this life except being such a hateful man ? Never late to change. This is my last answer to you.
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You are comical.
From memory, the person i called an islamist tried to lie about what the quran said. He later admitted that its not what the quran said but what he wanted it to say.
Fascists use violence to get their way. They want to shut down free speech, not promote it. Sounds like modern liberals to me. Go back and read the threads here, conservatives denounced violence from both sides, but it took ages for any liberals to do the same and when they did it, they got crapped all over by their fellow liberals.
It's people like you that scream "fascist" at everyone you don't like, despite your own side being the true fascists.
Islam isnt a race, despite what liberals say. In the UK, one of the more famous muslims is a fat white ginger guy. Sinead OConnor is a muslim, so is Tony Blair's sister in-law. Lots of blacks and whites are muslims, as well as far east asians.
You are butt hurt because I say that being gay is against "the perfect word of god", according to what the quran says.
You refuse to explain how some muslims are "good" while others are "evil" when both cherry pick the bits they like from "the perfect word of god".
You claim Im the evil one, while your side smashes people over the head with bike locks, set occupied buildings on fire, torch an immigrant muslim's limo on fire that he used for work, smash shop windows, beat up elderly people and disabled people. You shout shit like "fuck your laws" while you commit crimes. Your side screams "NGGR" and other nasty names at black people that refuse to bow down to you. You scummy ass clowns support vile pieces of garbage like Jonathan "jessica" Yuniv, while hating on real trans-people like Blair White. Yuniv was is a massive racist and was found to have brought his discrimination cases against minority women, as well as his lovely social media posts, but you people kept licking his ass and defending him/her/it. You people believe that CIS white little fag boys can tell trans-people what they should believe and feel.
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You are comical.
From memory, the person i called an islamist tried to lie about what the quran said. He later admitted that its not what the quran said but what he wanted it to say.
Fascists use violence to get their way. They want to shut down free speech, not promote it. Sounds like modern liberals to me. Go back and read the threads here, conservatives denounced violence from both sides, but it took ages for any liberals to do the same and when they did it, they got crapped all over by their fellow liberals.
It's people like you that scream "fascist" at everyone you don't like, despite your own side being the true fascists.
Islam isnt a race, despite what liberals say. In the UK, one of the more famous muslims is a fat white ginger guy. Sinead OConnor is a muslim, so is Tony Blair's sister in-law. Lots of blacks and whites are muslims, as well as far east asians.
You are butt hurt because I say that being gay is against "the perfect word of god", according to what the quran says.
You refuse to explain how some muslims are "good" while others are "evil" when both cherry pick the bits they like from "the perfect word of god".
You claim Im the evil one, while your side smashes people over the head with bike locks, set occupied buildings on fire, torch an immigrant muslim's limo on fire that he used for work, smash shop windows, beat up elderly people and disabled people. You shout shit like "fuck your laws" while you commit crimes. Your side screams "NGGR" and other nasty names at black people that refuse to bow down to you. You scummy ass clowns support vile pieces of garbage like Jonathan "jessica" Yuniv, while hating on real trans-people like Blair White. Yuniv was is a massive racist and was found to have brought his discrimination cases against minority women, as well as his lovely social media posts, but you people kept licking his ass and defending him/her/it. You people believe that CIS white little fag boys can tell trans-people what they should believe and feel.
Your answer is nonsense. Madness, stigmatisation and racism is your way, may it be. But accept the fact you are submerging this website by your hatred and every other admin or moderator should ban you for spreading hate speeches for years. You are not above the laws.
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Since islam isn't a race, it's not "racism". However, it makes you a racist by claiming that islam is based on race.
The site staff believe in free speech as per the US Supreme Court.
Also, no one is above criticism, no matter how snowflake they are. This includes any group that throws gays off of the highest roof in the area or stone gays to death.
Instead of whining and demanding I get banned, which won't happen, debate me on this.
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BTW, don't be making other threads about this topic. Keep it here.
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jordan-horner-teenage-white-muslim-2051097
Proof that islam isn't a race, despite the screams of those that hate free speech and want to shut down any criticism.
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It would be nice to see a discussion about what it's like to be Gay and Muslim rather than people who aren't Muslim yelling at one another.
I'm Jewish and pretty religious. I'm also strongly identified as Queer. (It seems like being Gay involves a lot of working out, buying clothes and listening to banal movies.) There are Jewish people who are pretty homophobic. There are Jewish people who are very supportive of same-sex rights. I think the majority don't give a rat's ass.
I do interfaith work with Progressive Muslims. Some have to deal with a shitload of sexism and homophobia in the Muslim community. Some have to deal with racism, hatred of immigrants, and hatred of Muslims. Most have to deal with both.
Myself, being from North African (Tunisian) Jewish descent get the ironic situation that sometimes people yell things at me because they think I'm Jewish and sometimes yell things at me because they think I'm Muslim. There's not a difference from my experience.
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That would be an interesting topic, but I would still have to ask why anyone would worship a god that their holy texts says their god HATES them. Any god that hates you as much as the Abrahamic god does, doesn't deserve to be worshiped by you.
I also hate being lied to. I have read the holy texts of several religions over the years.
If you (generic) tell me that your religion says something that is not true, I'm gonna call you out. If you wish it said something else, then say that. If you wish that your holy texts said something else that is this fundamental, then you really need to think if you should be part of the religion.
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I'm amazed by the level of ignorance in this thread. It's hard to know where to start. Sadly a lot of Americans are heavily influenced by propaganda in that country. First let me say that I was born a Hindu but I am now a Zen Buddhist. Although my main tertiary education is in Mathematics, Computer Science (and I am now studying for a PhD in that field), I took several subjects in religion at University. So here are some facts:
1. the word "homosexuality" first appeared in print in Austria in the late 1800's. The concept of sexuality (an innate subconscious sexual attraction) is modern: the product of modern psychological understanding and the theory of the subconscious mind. There is no reference to homosexuality in the Quran. There is no reference to homosexuality in the Bible. The first translation of the Bible that included the word "homosexual" was in 1941. This translates sexual acts as sexuality which is clearly an (probably intentional) error by modern homophobes.
2. When someone quotes "Kill the infidels wherever you find them" (post number two), you know you are dealing with someone completely brainwashed by the lies and distortions of the US far right propaganda machine. The "Infidels" in that verse refers specifically to the people of Mecca who were persecuting the Muslims in the early days of Islam as is very clear by the wider context. Islam in fact is the only world religion that specifically recognises other religions (Judaism and Christianity aka the "people of the book") as valid.
3. "People like to cherry pick from their religion" from some other post. Religion is defined by what the people who identify as members of that religion actually believe and actually do. It is not defined by what is written in books or what religious leaders say. In Christianity, there is the Catholic/Protestant polemic where the reformation attempted to claim that the literal interpretation of the Bible was more important than the traditions and beliefs of the Christian community. This ONLY applies to Christianity. Until only very recently (late 19th century under the influence of Christian missionaries), this was completely alien to Islam and remains alien to all of the other world religions. It is the weirdest thing you will ever read on social media where Christian (influenced) people try to tell Muslims what they believe by quoting the Quran and Hadiths at them. The vast majority of Muslims have never read the Quran and certainly not the Hadiths. Religion is learned within families and social groups, not from reading a book and very little from listening to religious teachers.
In my experience, growing up in Mysore and Bangalore in India and now living in Australia, Muslim families are more tolerant and understanding of their gay sons than most other families. In the same-sex marriage vote in Australia recently, surveys showed that the percentage vote in favour in Muslim communities was lower than the community in general, but higher than in evangelical Christians or even in the Chinese community.
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1. Just because the word "homosexuality" didn't exist at the time, doesn't mean it was an unknown concept. Ancient Greece and Rome it was quite common. You seriously need to stop lying about what is in the quran.
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/homosexuality.aspx
2. LOL, you need to try harder. The quran is full of commands to kill others. Be honest and tell us what else the quran says about christians and jews.
3. Based on what you said, islam is the religion of terrorism. You also admit that muslims are totally ignorant of their own religion.
Clearly, muslims aren't as accepting as you claim.
BTW, The Guardian is an ultra leftist rag.
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You really need to educate yourself with some academic sources, not web sites like "religion of peace" FFS. The Islamic world has a large body of homoerotic literature and art. Homosexual sex was explicitly legalised in the Ottoman Empire (including the whole of the Middle-East) in the mid-19th Century, long before it was legalised in the West. European homosexual men fled to Islamic Morroco, Greece (under Ottoman rule) etc. to flee persecution at home. Iran had a royal gay wedding in the 1970's. Homosexual sex was only made illegal in Iran in 1979 and in Saudi Arabia (in imitation) in 1980, both for political reasons, not religious. Islamic history has stories of several rulers who had sexual relationships with other men, for example several of the Caliphs of Cordoba and Babur, the founder or the Mughal Empire in India.
Yes, of course homosexuality existed before it was understood by modern psychology but the concept of an innate subconscious behavioural preference did not. The concept did not exist and there was no word for it. Yes, men have been having sex with men for as long as there have been men. Formal sexual relationships between men and men or men and adolescents existed in many cultures including Ancient Greece and Rome but it was not understood in the way that we do now.
The Quran and the Bible may condemn sex between men but:
1. The majority of homosexuals are women.
2. There are many homosexual men who do not or have not yet had sex with another man.
3. Surveys show that a small proportion of heterosexual men have sex with other men and given the small proportion of men who are homosexual, the number of heterosexual men who have sex with other men actually outnumbers the total number of homosexual who have sex with men.So that translation of "a men having sex with another man" as "homosexuality" is an error. No one has ever been punished in any religion for being homosexual. They have been punished for having sex with another man. That is completely different and punishments for having sex outside marriage are typically just as severe if not worse.
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The Quran and the Bible may condemn sex between men but:
That is the complete opposite of your previous claim.
I used that site because it was quick and easy. If you claim that they are lying about the quotes from the quran, then it's up to you to prove it.
So that translation of "a men having sex with another man" as "homosexuality" is an error. No one has ever been punished in any religion for being homosexual. They have been punished for having sex with another man. That is completely different and punishments for having sex outside marriage are typically just as severe if not worse.
Are you seriously gonna try to pull that crap?
Looking at another man in a faggy way is enough to get you punished. I know, I know, your rebuttal is that "in a faggy way" wasn't a term in use in the 7th century.
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The Economist is now an expert in homosexuality in the middle east?
Go back and read what I wrote in the 8th post (I think that's it, haven't had my coffee yet). I covered some of the things in the quran.
The British and the French didn't go into the region until 1,100 years later. So how an the be blamed for what the quran says? Are you claiming time travel is real?
Also, it seems that there is "racism of low expectations" by claiming that even the Europeans have left the region (no longer control it) that the brown people are to thick to modernise and do the morally right thing.
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Religion is a social phenomenon learned within social groups. It is NOT defined by what is written in religious texts. Religious texts are cultural artefacts. They (and their interpretation) are the product of religion, not the other way around.
You don't see the irony of you, an atheist, telling Muslims how they should interpret their religious texts?
You often see the argument on social media:
Christian: Quote from Proverbs, quote from Genesis, quote from Job, quote from Samuel.
Atheist: But the old testament also says your should not cut your hair and not wear clothes made from more than one kind of thread.
Christian: Well Jesus came to give us a new covenant. The Old Testament isn't relevant anymore.
Atheist: But you were just quoting from the Old Testament!
Christian: Ummmmm.
Both sides in this discussion have got it wrong. Christianity is NOT defined by the Bible. It has not been learnt by reading the Bible. It has been learnt within a family and a social group (the church). The problem in Christianity (and Christian influenced culture including the atheists) that because of the reformation, people think that a religion IS defined by a text, creating this cognitive confusion.
This is even less true of Islam and other religions. For most of the history of Islam (and of Christianity), the Quran and the Bible were not even translated into languages that people could understand.
I know many gay Muslims, mainly from India, Bangladesh, Indonesia and Malaysia. I know the Middle-East is different, but most Muslims don't live in the Middle-East. They live in South and South-East Asia. I have seen two gay men dressed in Desi drag (Saris, Indian Jewellery, wigs, makeup) kneeling on floor doing their prayers before going out to the Taxi Club in Sydney to pick up Lebanese men (who apparently like that kind of thing).
I have been in a gay night club in Dacca during Ramadan where they have suddenly turned off the very loud music because of the last call to prayer and then a lot of the men there knelt down to pray.
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So, what you are saying is that I can call myself [insert religion] and do whatever I want, regardless if it goes completely against the holy texts of that religion.
There is no irony, in my comments, when a bunch of cherry pickers are wanting to force their religion on me. That survey from about 2013 showed that British muslims are against homosexuality and want sharia law, while claiming welfare for their 5 wives which is clearly against the quran. They do many things that violate the quran, but that's ok to them.
As for the atheist vs christian thing, it's because christians cherry pick from both the OT and NT, while saying that the OT doesn't apply to them. It can't be both. Either the OT applies or it doesn't. If it doesn't apply then they need to shut up about it.
Just because gay muslims do something, does not mean that it's allowed according to their holy texts. This applies to any muslim.
There are religious and cultural jews, for example. The same could be said for muslims (and others). If they are "cultural", then they have no claim on religious beliefs and need to keep their mouths shut about what their holy texts say.
BTW, I'm not sure if you see it, but your stance justifies burning holy texts because they don't matter to religion. It's extremely ironic, but totally expected, that atheists read holy texts but believers don't.
