US Marriage / Civil Union - Yea I wish!
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Firtly I am pleased that the forums are back, thank you GT Team!
The forums are good and even though participation is perhaps low, it is still very good to have, as it gives us a venue
to share information, expereinces and iterests.Anyway on to my post or should I say Rant?
I am wondering how many others have been affected by the current US legislation designed specifically to keep same sex partners
apart, namely DOMA, the so called 'Defence of Marridge Act' which denies same sex couples not only the same financial assistance
as those afforded to a man and wife but also denies the partner of a foreign same sex couple immigration rights.So in effect a relationship between man and women can sponsor their foregin partner and same sex partners are denied the
same rights, meaning they are forced to live apart or relocate. Now some are going to argue why doesnt your partner simply
move over to the UK and be recognised, settle there and be happy? If only it was that easy! I think to those that spout such
nonsense actually take a deep hard look at yours and others circumstances, that isnt always a viable option, and very dependant
upon obligations, and in any event whay the hell should we have to? If Mr and Mrs Socallednormal can do it, why cant we?Anyway it is so shocking that one of the most so called modern nations in the world are so backwards, it really does begger belief!
I am personally going through this now, having spent seven years flying between the US and the UK and eventually of course I
was denied entry and then a visitors visa, so now we are apart until I either get a job over there, or go to University, what
a crock of shit.Just to point out I have never overstayed my authorised stay, always abided by the law and I cannot even explain to the US
immigration I have a same sex partner because this in itself is sufficient reason not to return to the UK. My denial was for
being over there too many times as they figured I was living there (I wish)! But hey ho what the F*** can you do!It is wonderful being gay but it is damned lonely without your partner. The phone is no subsititue for his warm embrace.
Rant Over
James
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I am so sorry to hear that you are caught up in this mess with the USA government. It is indeed a truly sad and IMHO grievous injustice to you and your partner.
I just made a post in our old Gay News Forum which is not visible yet in the Forums. The post is about Same Sex Partners and immigration. I know this is not your situation but it contains this info which makes me think you may have a chance at some defense of this decision.
Last year, Attorney General Eric Holder and President Barack Obama called DOMA unconstitutional and said they would no longer defend the measure in court. In response, the Republican-controlled U.S. House of Representatives stepped in to fund an effort to try to uphold the law.
The U.S. Supreme Court is expected to decide next month whether it will review a number of cases questioning the constitutionality of DOMA.
If i were you I would contact the American Civil Liberties Union to discuss possible avenues to overturn this decision. Your civil liberties have certainly been violated IMHO. I really think they will help you or at least have some advice on how you should proceed.
Check out this organization as well. They allow people to start a petition to make a Change in all matters. I have never started a petition but I have signed many. You, of course, will need somewhere or someone to send the petition to that will garner the attention to this issue.
hrc.org]www.hrc.org ~ Human Rights Campaign
I would contact HRC for potential sources of already existing efforts being made to combat this situation you are forced to live with. I have contacted them several times and it may take a while to get a response from a phone call made, they have assisted me several times in the past. They also have a petition campaign on many LGBT issues and seem to know where to send the petitions for the best results.
Please keep us informed on your progress with fighting the USA government and let us know how we can help you in your fight.
:love:
Michael and Rob
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Summer of 2012 was very busy with regards to legal action against DOMA, with two US District Courts ruling that Section 3 was unconstitutional. Now although they won both, the plaintiffs in both cases have asked the US Supreme Court to accept review.
One ruling was issued July 31st 2012 by the US District Court in Connecticut in the case of Pedersen v. Office of Personnel Management, et al., which was brought by several same-sex couples who were legally married under the laws of Connecticut, Vermont and New Hampshire. Although the plaintiffs won, on August 22nd 2012 they filed for a writ of certiorari in the US Supreme Court, arguing that the case merits consideration by the Supreme Court without further proceedings in the lower courts, most likely because an appeal by the government was inevitable. Because the Obama administration has opted not to defend DOMA, the case is being litigated on behalf of the federal government by the Bipartisan Legal Advisory Group of the US House of Representatives (BLAG), a group consisting of House Speaker John Boehner and 4 other house members.
On June 6th 2012, the US District Court for the Southern District of New York reached a similar decision in Windsor v US. Applying the same “rational basis” test used in Pedersen, the judge found that Section 3 of DOMA violates the equal protection clause of the Fifth Amendment. Windsor has been appealed to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals; oral arguments were scheduled for September 27th 2012. In addition to Pedersen and Windsor, there are two other DOMA challenges with certiorari petitions pending before the US Supreme Court, which is expected to accept at least one of the cases for the term that begins October 2012. If that occurs, the Supreme Court could decide the issue sometime in 2013.1
1DOMA Update - Law Office of John S. Palmer - Bellevue, Seattle. Estate Planning, Family Law, Trusts, Guardianships, Probate and More - Law Office of John S. Palmer - Bellevue, Seattle. Accessed from web 1 Oct., 2012. hxxp://www.palmerlegal.com/blog/2012/9/doma-update/
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I live in the UK with my British partner due to DoMA.
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Thanks guys for your help and support, it means a lot in difficult times.
I'll look at the information you mentioned, as all information is welcomed and you never know
It is a mess and it is unfair to blame the US as a whole (being the country), I think it was a case of legislation that at the time
no one really grasped the impact, certainly today people are much more aware and I gues there would now be much more
support and outrage to prevent this type of legislation being passed again and discrminating against any social group, regardless
of gender.I know UAFA is being looked into and I am hopeful that something at the very least will be done to allieviate the situation. My
partner cannot come to the UK to be with me, and believe me he would do it in 2 seconds flat if it were possible, but he has caring
responsbilities to a family member and made a promise to look after that individual, I could not and would never ask him to break that
promise as I know how intimate it was when it was made and the value of it.In the meantime I am stuck here, and it looks like my only option is to research and I will contact the various organizations
that may be able to help. I just sometimes get so damned mad and angry at the whole situation, I fell in love with my soul
partner in another country, I guess life and love has no grasp of distance!Thanks Again
James
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Again if I can do anything to help with research or contacting organizations I am just a PM away. :ok2:
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I don't know why the US doesn't allow same-sex marriages yet. The 14th Ammendment clearly demands this, specifically the equal protection clause. It's been used successfully for civil rights cases since it's introduction in 1868.
Here in South Africa, our new constitution was adopted in 1996 and the Bill of Rights specifically states that no discrimination is allowed on the basis of sexual orientation (amongst many other things), and it took an application to the Constitutional Court to force the law makers to create legislation that would equalise marriage. Thus, we've had equal marriage since December 2005 (the 5th in the world to declare fully equal rights).
I don't understand why nobody hauls out the 14th ammendment in your country. It's right there, waiting to be used.
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The RSA went from apartheid to gay marriage in just 10 years, an incredible achievement. Here in the USA that same process has taken much longer. That's because having the 14th amendment written is simply not enough. The process you must go through is to show harm, prove cause, and seek remedy.
Here in the USA, people cannot sue the government―only other people. So to enforce any amendment you must prove that you have been "harmed" by another person's actions. Where I live in California that opportunity came when our last governor started to enforce Proposition 8, a ban on gay marriage which violated the due process and equal protection clauses of the amendment. Now this is why, as you mentioned in your post, it has taken so long: the people suing him and his successor must pass through three different court levels. Only when they pass the third level do they―and by extension all Americans―gain remedy. They might finish by July 2013.
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That sounds very tedious. Justice is pretty as slow here as well.
Technically, our current constitution was enacted in in 1996 but it took ten years and Constitutional Court challenge before the Civil Union Act to force it into being. Unfortunately, our ConCourt cannot force changes in legislation unless a case is brought before them and they were being blocked at every stage.
Surprisingly, although our constitution is extremely liberal, most of the people are not and whenever politicians want to stir up cheap support, they just invoke calls to bring back the death penalty, ban abortion or gay marriage and they instantly get their desired media coverage and support. It sickens me.
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It is difficult for us to express our emotions over this particular issue, and it takes soul searching to deal with the unfairness of it
while trying to understand the social implications and attitudes. The saying Rome wasnt built in a day, never really makes up for
it when you are in distress or indeed when it comes to matters of the heart.I do truly believe that we will win in the end, and hopefully quicker than it took to build Rome.
I do sometimes find it hard to express my feelings over equality, so I made a quick video clip which I hope you will enjoy. It dosen't
meet torrent standards so I am posting it as a media link.James
hXXp://freakshare.com/files/t719fxzf/equal.wmv.html
(Just remember to change the front part when pasting into your browser, and select free download, it will take a couple of
minutes to become available) -
:cheers: Great Video James :cheers:
I pray for relief for you in this situation soon :hug:
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Only when they pass the third level do they―and by extension all Americans―gain remedy. They might finish by July 2013."
During oral arguments this week, the three different pathways of resolution open in the Prop 8 case were illuminated by the justices, through the types of questions they asked. This graphic shows those pathways.
Adam Liptak and Alicia Parlapiano / NYTimes
