Is it possible to change bonus system?
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As the only gay related tracker that doesn't include freeleech torrents
(I think it's unlikely to have them in the future ),I think the current bonus system
doesn't really help too much.
I believe the bonus system is to help people maintain good ratio.
If members have ratio problems, they can use it to solve their problems.But current system is kind of cruel….
12 points a day. That's pretty much what I can get for seeding the torrents a day.
If I want to exhange for 5GB credits, it needs almost a month.
It makes no difference even if I seed lots of torrents. I still only get 12 points at most. (I think it's not reasonable)If I give out 12 points as seedbonus gift for the torrent I like,
it means I give out all points I get in a day.
I believe many people never ever give out any points.
Because it's harder to earn them.I think maybe it can be changed like this: (some trackers have similar setting like this.)
We get 0.5 point for every hour we seed 1 torrent.
The maximum is 10 torrents.(If the torrents are more than 10, they will not
be counted.)That means 5 points an hour and 120 points a day.
It just takes about 3 days. We can exchange for 5GB upload credits.10 torrents here is juat an example. I think maybe it's better set the limit to 6 torrents.
That will be 3 points an hour and 72 points a day. It needs about 5 days to
exchange for 5GB upload credits. It's still very useful.If it's changed like this, I think the bonus system will be really helpful.
Since we have a bonus system, why not make the best use of it…
It will also be a kind of incentive to encourage people to seed. -
I was just about to make a post on this subject. We should get bonus points for every torrent we are seeding. Otherwise what is the incentive for seeding more torrents if we get the same number of bonus points for seeding one torrent or ten torrents?
It should be .5 points per torrent and without any limits. If I can seed 50 torrents I should get more bonus points for keeping so many torrents alive and helping others download faster.
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A reflection if the current seed bonus system needs adaptations is legitimate, I'd like nevertheless through in some thoughts:
a) What makes you downloading here, is real upload of other members, not exchanged Seed Bonus Points. Easy SBP will be contra productive.
b) Seed Bonus Points were created as a help for real slow liners (< 10KBytes/s) and as incentive to keep available torrents without downloaders until one downloader joins the swarm
c) A seeded torrent, once downloaded, need to be seed at a reasonable speed, seeding many many torrents and then provide crappy upload rates is not well
d) The current SBP system can be used as to get out of low ratio only at starts times, as such it helps on the learning curve, but nobody should count on it to keep ratio. At best exchange rate, it is worth only 1.43 KBytes/s
Some thoughts to user behaviours:
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Most members even give a thank you (button click), so 12 SBP given is already a very big gift. If every downloader would give 1 SBP, that will sum up for much, but remain low for each downloader
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There are many users collecting SBP and never exchanging them, so we don't miss SBP in the system. They need just to be used. Of course this collecting can have valid reasons: not knowing to exchange, saving for bad times, wanting to show to be a good seeder …
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I still think it's necessary to change a little bit in this bonus system.
When a system exists, it should be able to help people.
Not just a "better than never" system.
If it's only helpful at start, it's not a good system.
I just don't think it's good to hold negative ideas
against it and make this system "handicapped"As for the use of bonus, it's personal behavior.
You can think it in negative way, but it can also be positive.
When it's harder to earn points, how can you expect people to use it
or give out as seedbonus gift?When people upload something, it's possible he wants to fix ratio problem.
I just don't think "click on thank you" will be enough to help.
If it's a little bit easier to earn points from seeding,
I think I will be more willing to give out points.
(my given/gift is about 70%) When the uploader can get a little bit more
points, he may be more willing to upload something. I believe
that some people may be disappointed when he finds out no one gives out
any points for his upload.But I don't agree with unlimited torrents for bonus points.
Indeed some people may use it to exchange points.
I think set a limit to it is still a better way.If you seed 6 torrents, it doesn't mean there will be leechers download
all these 6 torrents at same time. Usually only part of them will be downloaded.
If the torrents are older, it may take a long period of time to have merely one leecher.As for "reasonable speed", I think it depends. I don't think we have the right to
be picky about download speed. I think sharing is not like that.
Honestly I just care if I can finish it.
I'm totally fine if it takes much time to finish the download.
If the seeder can seed it completely, that's enough.
It's ok to be slow. Members of this site are from different countries.
I don't think we can expect download speed to be "reasonable" from all members.I think the bonus system should be more useful…not just like a "handicapped" system.
Don't rely on it too much. But when you need it, it can really help.
That's what I think about a system.There're two faces. It's just not always that bad.
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Are you honestly telling me that you would let it sit there for 3 months or more waiting for a single download? I'm sorry but I don' buy it. You'd be back on here complaining that we need to make people give more speed to their uploads.
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"Otherwise what is the incentive for seeding more torrents"
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"It will also be a kind of incentive to encourage people to seed."Am I missing something here…. the incentive to seed and to seed multiple torrents is your Ratio... Seed 1 torrent and yes you get 12 sb per day, but dont forget seed multiple torrents and theres more chance someone will download them...
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Never mind. I just waste my time suggesting something that's not gonna happen.
Thank you for your time. I honestly don't need the system at all.
I just think there's something can be done. Alright. Just skip it and I lock the thread. -
Whatever system we have, people will always complain. That is the nature of the beast.
I don't believe that people will wait for a torrent for several months. They will delete it from their client and move on.
I also don't believe that people only upload for SB points and if anyone does that, then they are silly beyond words.
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There is other ways that SB could be issued that might be easier to implement and manage….
Give SB for every valid torrent file uploaded - for example 5 SBP for each normal movie uploaded and 10 SBP for a DVD-R Uploaded - this would help encourage more new torrents to be uploaded.
Give SBP for activity on the forum etc - something like 1 SBP for replying to a post - and 5 SBP for Starting a new post (Valid posts and just just any old crap to get points)....
Just a couple of suggestions, but they get people participating more to earn points....
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We've been discussing the things you mentioned for a while now.
The problem is, like with the picture uploading for torrents, people will cheat by either spamming the forums with junk for points or uploading duplicate torrents for points.
Once we (when I say "we" I mean Mgr for coding stuff like this) get past the coding issue so when stuff is rejected/removed it also takes away their SB points, then it will probably go on-line.
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"Otherwise what is the incentive for seeding more torrents"
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"It will also be a kind of incentive to encourage people to seed."Am I missing something here…. the incentive to seed and to seed multiple torrents is your Ratio... Seed 1 torrent and yes you get 12 sb per day, but dont forget seed multiple torrents and theres more chance someone will download them...
It's not just about ratio, it's also about keeping the torrent alive. If I'm seeding an old or unpopular torrent where there's only a single or few seeders and people aren't downloading it every day, then there's little reason in continuing to seed it and I might just stop it and let the torrent die. But if I were getting points for seeding each torrent then that would make me continue to seed it. It just seems logical to give an incentive to do that. Isn't that the whole reason for the bonus points system? This would just be applying it to every torrent. I don't see how that would make it unfair or cheat the system. People would leave more torrents open longer and there would be more seeds, especially for older files.
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Ah never thought of it that way…. I agree
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So people won't do anything unless they are rewarded? No fairness, No community spirit or No sharing, just greed for SB points? What does that say of the members here?
On the topic of "you suck because other sites do free leech and all you give us is some shitty, we hate you, die mother fucker die!!!, seed bonus", well I'm still sitting here downloading a free leech torrent from another site and it hasn't moved for 2 days now and it's taken 3 weeks to get to 11.8%.
I don't see how that would make it unfair or cheat the system
As it is now, people leave 1 torrent "seeding" but turn down the speed so low that it won't ever seed properly. All so they can get the SB for free.
The purpose of the seed bonus is to help people, not to make it so they never have to see ever again by giving them 10 billion GB worth of SB points a day.
This idea is as bad as the "no ratio limits" and "pay us cash for uploading and seeding" camps. Effectively, all 3 concepts will destroy the community because no one will be seeding anything.
NOTE: YES, there some people here who believe they should be paid cash for seeding back things they downloaded of free from here, as well as uploading things they got free from other sites.
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Somehow I've got the impression that my first reply was a little misinterpreted.
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Nothing is fixed into granite, IMHO the system needs to surveyed and adapted if necessary. You can be sure the staff reads the different suggestions and keeps them in mind. (Off course that doesn't mean the system will be changed as per every requester's demand. Changes to the system are rare and take time …)
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The points in the first list are the advantages of the current system
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No conclusion was made by me on purpose, to keep this open. Anyway, I can't speak here for all staff but gave rather my personal points of view
I agree that the requester does not need SBP for himself, his statistics show it clearly.
A bonus system can not replace the need of real upload. Only real upload can be downloaded. If the bonus is too generous, it will be possible to keep the individual share ratios high, without need to upload real data. Then what will happen is, that downloads will slow down, because of missing uploads.
My experience on a friendly competition gay torrent site, having every torrent being freeleech after 3 months and no minimum ratio requirement is, that when I tried to download those to complete my collections, they where not seed (many even not after having sent re-seed requests) or slowly. That doesn't mean I've got nothing and on some the original uploader did re-seed only for me (a big thank you to them), but it was overall quite frustrating and I gave up on most after some months. Here it is just the opposite: members are "forced" to seed and keep ratio. ... perhaps a little too much ... possible.
It is right that it won't be unfair to give for each torrent seed even without upload, SBP. True. But is that the purpose of the SBP system? Not sure. We would have to reduce the SBP per torrent drastically, in view of members seeding 50, 100, 1000 torrents (yes, there are many like that) and that will hurt starters with few more than a flat credit of SBP.
Then, the more not currently downloaded torrents a member seeds in "standby", the higher the chance one of them is picked by a member to download and "bingo": real data upload improves the share ratio. In the abyss of this forum, you find indications that I had been possible to reach seeding only torrents of over 3 months age an average above 100KBytes/s. That is more than most members internet access physically allows.
There will be adaptations to the seed bonus system, but a massive inflation of them, certainly not.
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this system is not bad. We should play after the rules I guess.
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As it is now, people leave 1 torrent "seeding" but turn down the speed so low that it won't ever seed properly. All so they can get the SB for free.
How do you know that every person that leaves 1 torrent open has turned the speed to low? I have 2 torrents that I've been seeding since 2009 and I have not changed the speed at all.
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As it is now, people leave 1 torrent "seeding" but turn down the speed so low that it won't ever seed properly. All so they can get the SB for free.
How do you know that every person that leaves 1 torrent open has turned the speed to low? I have 2 torrents that I've been seeding since 2009 and I have not changed the speed at all.
Show me the exact point where I said everyone with 1 torrent seeding does it.
I'll wait.
I also note that you claim to be doing something that you say isn't worth your time because you aren't getting enough SB reward for it (seeding 2 torrents at a time), so you are proof that our current system works, because you are seeding more than 1 torrent.
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Show me the exact point where I said everyone with 1 torrent seeding does it.
I'll wait.
I also note that you claim to be doing something that you say isn't worth your time because you aren't getting enough SB reward for it (seeding 2 torrents at a time), so you are proof that our current system works, because you are seeding more than 1 torrent.
You seemed to be implying that was what most people were generally doing, setting 1 torrent on low speed just to get the SB points. I don't know how you know this but if that's what you are saying then isn't that proof that the current SB system DOESN'T work? If the purpose of the SB system is to rewards seeders for continually seeding but you only reward them for one torrent would you be surprised if most people only leave 1 torrent open? You don't want to change the system because you think too many people would just turn all torrents to low speed? How do you know this?
Just because I'm personally seeding more than one torrent doesn't prove the system works. It just proves there are some people who don't seed only for the SB or even for ratio. One of my torrents has me as the only seeder. I could stop seeding and let it die but I don't want to because I know some people will still want it. I have a positive ratio so I don't NEED to seed but I choose to. That doesn't mean I think the current SB system is effective or that I don't want any SB.
I'm currently seeding 10 torrents that don't see a whole lot of downloading activity so it'd be nice to get something else for the effort. Maybe if we got points for each torrent I'd seed even more torrents or leave them open longer.
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Well, i think what was tried to point out is, that there are always some (by far not all) members to use any system, including bonus point systems in a way which is not intended, but benefit to them, so understandable from that point of view.
I think here especially to members having an internet access with a data volume limit and high expenses if it is exceeded. I read that such schemes are quite usual in Canada or were in Belgium for example. (Note: I am not at all saying all Canadians or Belgians do anything bad). These members may try to optimise their volume quota by using it as much as possible for downloading and get upload through bonus points only, without really seeding sensible data volumes. These will seed more than the one needed to collect the multiple points (if installed such way), but the torrents they keep alive may become real "zombies", if such a seed is the last and only seed.
Members with flat rate have nearly no reason to limit their upload rate of course, except they need it for other share ratio controlled trackers
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@ thedude99
First off, "seem to be implying most" is not saying saying everyone, not is it actually saying "most".
Let me get this right.
Just because some members abuse the SB system, doesn't mean it I'm right.
Just because you (and most everyone else) go completely against your own point, doesn't mean you are wrong.
In other words, "heads you win, tails I lose".
Nice logic.
I also question why you are only now posting about this, since you have been here for nearly 4 years. Surely our system was crap in your eyes before the other 188 weeks you've been a member.
NOTE: I would say that a lot (not a few, as Uwe said) of people cheat at SB, just like we saw with picture uploading and every other benefit we gave. We had to cut back on the reward for uploading pictures to torrent pages because it was massively abused.
