"Ground Zero mosque leader says gay people were abused as children"
-
Find ONE Catholic school that preaches hatred for everything non Catholic, or one western democracy where the official policy is the annihiliation of a country such as Israel and I'll eat my words…...Nothing in the west comes close to this, they are not acting on behalf of a larger religious organization. If I'm wrong, let me know.
The Catholic Church has spent two millennia demonizing human sexuality to a degree unmatched by any other institution, declaring the most basic, healthy, mature, and consensual behaviors taboo. Indeed, this organization still opposes the use of contraception: preferring, instead, that the poorest people on earth be blessed with the largest families and the shortest lives. As a consequence of this hallowed and incorrigible stupidity, the Church has condemned generations of decent people to shame and hypocrisy — or to Neolithic fecundity, poverty, and death by AIDS. Add to this inhumanity the artifice of cloistered celibacy, and you now have an institution — one of the wealthiest on earth — that preferentially attracts pederasts, pedophiles, and sexual sadists into its ranks, promotes them into positions of authority, and grants them priviliged access to children. Finally, consider that vast numbers of children will be born out of wedlock, and their unwed mothers vilified, wherever Church teaching holds way — leading boys and girls by the thousands to be abandoned to Church-run orphanages only to be raped and terrorized by the clergy. The evidence suggests that the misery of these children was facilitated and concealed by the hierarchy of the Catholic Church at every level, up to and including Cardinal Ratzinger, who personally oversaw the Vaticans response to this abuse. What did this wise and compassionate man do? Complaints were set aside, witnesses pressured into silence, bishops praised for their defiance of secular authority, and offending priests were relocated only to destroy fresh lives in unsuspecting parishes. It is no exaggeration to say that for decades (if not centuries) the Vatican has met the formal definition of a criminal organization devoted—not to gambling, prostitution, drugs, or any other venial sin — but to the sexual enslavement of children.
Here, in this ghoulish machinery set to whirling through the ages by the opposing winds of shame and sadism, we mortals can finally glimpse how strangely perfect are the ways of the Lord.
-
If you want to point out all the failings of the Catholic Church through the millenia, I don't know what that has to do with this post. The quote that you posted was a direct response to Raphjd's comment that Britain is using taxpayer funds to support Islamic schools which indirectly vilify those paying for it by teaching hatred for anything non-muslim - most of what I just said are his words. So your ensuing response has little in relationship to the quote as far as I can see.
I could point out that billions have gone to Catholic schools, hospitals, universities, and orphanages and received no ill treatment albeit strict upbringing. I actually know some older adults that were raised in orphanages, do you? They have nothing but happy memories of the loving care they received from the Sisters. People forget that parents and public schoolsin days gone by used cruel punishments, were incredibly strict and used a lot of corporal punishment. There is a boy in history, his name escapes me now, who received a whipping in a Boston public school because he didn't recite the 10 commandments in order of the King James Bible (he was a Catholic child) . Nowadays, one would think from history books it was only the Catholic church who did such things. Still, to think of what happened at the Irish orphanages and what happened to boys in Australian orphanages and the Irish priest in Boston that molested 150 children - I don't understand it, can't explain it and don't excuse it. There are few institutions as large as the Catholic Church with as long a history to compare it to. (Please do, if you can think of any) Generally speaking, humanity has far more in common that we do differences. I strongly suspect this is as much of a case of "king of the mountain" mentality where the the person at the top is attempted to be knocked off by those of lesser status. And selective reporting. Further, to say the Catholic church has demonized human sexuality unmatched by any other institution - it might even be true - but the world is a big place and several millennia is long time - you must indeed be the font of all knowledge to make that claim!
Just for sake of argument though let's accept everything you say. I would tell you that being a single mother in the USA is a ticket to all kinds of free stuff, a lot of which the working poor don't even get. I work there, I know. What goes on at Protective Services is another joke. How these people live their lives, make a shambles of the inner cities moving from place to place, destroying rental properties with no recourse - the manipulation of the legal & prison systems - the unprecedented fraud that goes on in social services - as I alluded to earlier - everything you complain about the Catholic church is now done by the government and probably 10 times worse. Huge corporations get tons of welfare too. Defense spending - how absurd people are starving and one helicopter is 30 million? How can one item have such a huge price tag? And the government rules don't make insurance accessible to all - even some low middle class business owners right were I live say health insurance is a privilege, not a right. Driving is a privilege not a right. Try to get to work on the lousy bus system around here and tell me that again!
Well, I think we're just on opposite poles and aren't getting anywhere since you ignoring stuff is exponentially increasing just like your philosophical cohort Raphjd so I see no point in taking this further. I will just leave you with this final thought - I've amply demonstrated that despite what you probably consider medieval thought processes, I love my neighbor as myself and treat people I interact with decently. A lot of people (and policies which are not enforced) with lofty ideals and things you would probably wholeheartedly endorse don't do half of what I do to make where they live a better place, probably don't donate half of what I do, so ultimately what difference does all this make?
*** Modification : Probably what you're really saying is where is the Church's moral authority if they have failings. I would point out that everything with humans involved has failings. And that each person in the church that has done wrong things has to answer for themselves just as we all do. But my personal belief is that people try to do better when there is a standard to try to achieive.
-
@ fancydude
Well, I think we're just on opposite poles and aren't getting anywhere since you ignoring stuff is exponentially increasing just like your philosophical cohort Raphjd so I see no point in taking this further.
If we only said bad things about muslims,you'd be in the center of this thread and loving it. However, since we also included christianity, you aren't happy at all.
If you were able to switch into unbias mode, you'd see that you are slagging off everything to justify the abuses by your religion.
And before you bitch about the cost of a helicopter, bitch about how much wealth your church has accumulated over the last 2,000 years that could help a lot of people. And while you are at it, think how they got a lot of that wealth.
-
Can i make a last statement?
I think there were two basic questions here that were asked at the very beginning, and then the debate went wildly off tangent.
1) Why are we allowing ourselves (the self-proclaimed white man's burden) to be run over by other 3rd world nationalities and have our laws affected by them?
2) Is it right for a religion to view its members differently from others, to the point of terrorism?
It is a far more philosophical and entertaining discussion to rephrase the above questions to determine the answer to the following:
What morality can hold sway when we don't view the other side as being human? This is what will give you the answers to the entire debate that you've had going. It doesn't matter what religion you have, this is a fundamental question and it will answer any question you have about morality.
For example, if a muslim thinks you're a devil, then he won't bother to give you food if you're hungry, and it's even likelier that he will pick a fight with you because he can't see you as a person, only as a spawn of satan.
If they think the white women are not as sacred as the muslim women, then you can see what happens.
If the christians or the white people say that the other religions are terrorists, that gives them the right to "fight terror with terror" and thus absolves themselves of any guilt.
People's behavior are based on their perception of what the other person is. If he can't see humanity in the other party, then anything becomes forgivable. it is only when you acknowledge the other person as a person that any shred of compassion can come forth.
How does this sound? I think everyone would agree with this.
-
-
Further, to say the Catholic church has demonized human sexuality unmatched by any other institution - it might even be true - but the world is a big place and several millennia is long time - you must indeed be the font of all knowledge to make that claim!
I don't need to. You made that claim for me, just a few sentences prior:
There are few institutions as large as the Catholic Church with as long a history to compare it to.
And then there is this gem:
I don't understand it, can't explain it and don't excuse it.
Well you got 2 out of 3 right. But please do continue to post in other areas, as I truly appreciate the spirited debate!
As far as going on tangents as one poster said, I think that's the beauty of forums – and that we're all adults here who can handle the road, wherever it takes us.
