The Canadian Medical System
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As many people my know, the health-care system in differs from one country to another, but there's one thing that never ceases to amaze me about the Canadian health-care system (particularly in Waterloo Region, Ontario). Of all the dumb things I've ever heard of or seen in a hospital, this by far has got to be the single most outrageous moment I've ever seen in a Canadian hospital. Here goes.
So I walk into the hospital, although I don't remember why I was there. I sit down at the Triage desk for the nurse and get asked which medications that I'm on. I tell the nurse "I'm on Norvir 100mg once daily, plus these", and proceed to hand her a grocery bag with the other 9 other pill bottles (with the prescription labels on them). Of all the medications that the nurse looked through, there was one that she couldn't seem to figure out what it was for. What's more shocking is that she read both sides of the bottle and asked me what the Prezista was for. Let me give you a visual example of why I say that some people in our health-care system do not belong there. I still can't believe she was so f***ing clueless on as to which medications I was on. See the image below to see exactly what she was looking at.
Can someone please explain to me how in the hell looking at a pill bottle like this you can possibly not know what the medication is for? I mean seriously, do they have to spell it out any more clearly than the drug company already has on the bottle? They don't just list what it's for, but they specify which of the 3 main categories of these medications that they fall under. (Well… technically if you count Interfuron, which is in its own category because it's the only one you inject yourself with, it makes 4 categories, but that's besides the point). I mean seriously… Is this what our health-care system has come down to?
If triage nurses can't even read a f***ing label on a bottle to figure out what they're for, then I'm not so sure that they're all that qualified to be in the health-care profession. Then again, most of the people in the health-care profession in Waterloo Region have made it very clear to me by their actions that the only reason for being in the job was because of the pay cheque. Why is it that to get proper health-care by a team of dedicated PROFESSIONALS who actually care about what they're doing and the people they're working with, one would have to drive about an hour outside of town to the small town of Simcoe, Ontario (Norfolk County) to receive competent health-care?
I mean seriously! If it were a life threatening emergency, after something like that, I'm not sure I'd want to go back to such a place. What's worse is that you can't really complain about the health-care in Waterloo Region because all of the big-wigs have "better" and "more important" things to deal with and won't bother to give you the time of day until you get a lawyer involved and cry malpractice, human rights violations, and gross incompetence. Is this seriously what my tax dollars have gone to fund?! It doesn't stop there though.
On a previous visit, I was outraged by the fact that I walked into the supposed "Cardiac" hospital experiencing classic symptoms of a Cardiac Arrhythmia, complaining about chest pains and I get sent to "minor treatment". It wasn't until I told the nurse that something felt very wrong to me, suddenly clenched my chest as the chest pain set in even further and I damn near doubled over in pain having trouble breathing in what felt like a heart attack that the nurses would do anything. From there it only gets worse.
The stupid CUT of a nurse tried getting blood from me to run some tests to determine what was going on. Now understand, being HIV+ for 2 years now, I've gotten quite used to getting stabbed with something in the arm at least once a month, so I'm quite familiar with discovering right away who can and who can't draw blood. I have never as far as I can recall ever had an experience so painful and horrid in my whole life. I actually started screaming in agony as she stabbed me BESIDE the f**ing vein, and tried to prod around my arm trying to find the vein. Once I managed to push the damn thing back out of my arm, she just looked at me, threw a cotton ball at me and told me to deal with it myself. By this point, I was most uncomfortable doing anything further with her because quite honestly, I'd rather take a bullet to the brain than get stabbed by her again. She began insisting that I give her my arm again, and tried to force me to go through with it, without giving me the chance to calm myself down again. She's just lucky that I didn't smash her face in, because believe me... The thought crossed my mind.
It still doesn't stop there though. When I started making a scene because I was going to have absolutely NO part of that dumb twit having anything to do with me, they refused to allow me to speak with the director of patient care until they were conveniently "gone for the day". I suspect this was only because they knew that they were going to get into BIG trouble if they found out what had just happened. After almost a half hour of screaming at them at the top of my lungs, calling them every name in the book that came to mind at the time, they finally brought out the charge nurse. To make things worse, the charge nurse completely dismissed my issue, without even looking into it to fully find out what had happened, stating that "it's not like her to be like that, so I don't know why she would have done that", and left it at that.
So my next step was to finally tell them that if I was going to die, I'd rather do it at home where I could do it with dignity, pulled the leads off the heart monitor, told them to go f*** themselves, and walked out of the hospital, giving the charge nurse the "1-finger salute" as I called her a complete cu*t. I spoke with what was supposedly the vice-president of that hospital (St. Mary's Hospital in Kitchener, Ontario BTW), who assured me that he would investigate the situation and get to the bottom of it, and ever since will not answer the phone, won't return my voice messages, faxes, registered mail, or emails, figuring that I'd just go away like nothing ever happened. The sad thing is, it's not the first issue I've had with this hospital either.
How the hell is it that even the government officials in the area deem that this kind of health-care system is acceptable? I would seem to think that when someone lays down a serious complaint (which goes on a lot longer than this rant) about the shtty state of the health-care system would get addressed. Something about a patient who would rather die at home or otherwise drive an hour out of town to Norfolk General Hospital in Simcoe, Ontario (Norfolk County) to receive top notch health-care services would be something that you would think the government would want to address. Or perhaps the fact that the longest I've ever taken at Norfolk General Hospital was 4 hours from the time I parked the car to the time I was starting it back up again. The 4 hour wait I may add was ONLY because right after I arrived, 4 ambulances rolled in one after the other with patients in critical condition, which really in Canadian standards is still an impressive processing time. Perhaps these government officials need to be on the receiving end of this bullsht, or maybe even have to experience the average of 12.2 HOURS just in the waiting room to see the doctor before they'll stand up and take notice that there's a problem in Waterloo Region.
Any suggestions on how to make these f***ing retards stand up and take notice that there's a problem?
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Well, I can understand how frustrated you are, really, but you MUST remain calm. I work for the government here, remember? And when someone starts calling names, that is automatic dismissal of their concerns. Maybe it is not right, but that is kinda how it goes. This does not mean that you have to have the nurse stab you repeatedly if she can't get blood, but you have to politely refuse and continue requesting another nurse.
Since it is government run health care - there must be some kind of board of overseers you can write to as well as the Prime minister and the newspapers TV and everyone else. I trust you have the names of all medical personnel involved? I will write a letter to the hospital if you want, omitting your name or including it as you wish! Get others to write letters as well, in fact, you may want to quietly solicit info from fellow patients the next time you go there (if you do) and get a coalition together, if only on paper to have your concerns addressed. Does the hospital itself have a formal complaint process? Since that guy refuses to answer the telephone, send him a certified letter (signature required) asking for an appt. to discuss things with him.
PS find out ahead of your next visit who and when and where the director of patient care offices are and GO THERE if you need to.
That's all I can think of for now.
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I'm thinking some press coverage would be a great thing. Not that long ago the government wanted to shut that hospital down. I'm starting to understand why. I started out nice at the time, but when the nurses started a screaming match with me, I refused to back down. It's kinda funny though how when they get belligerent with you, it's perfectly acceptable, but the moment you show anything other than being an ass kisser, they'll have no part of it :rotfl:
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So do you want me to write a letter?
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I'm thinking that's probably a good idea
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I don't know if you were there because of an emergency situation or not, but my question is this
as I'm not from Canada: Is this the only option you had, or could you go to a different hospital?
(You did say this hospital had a poor reputation.) -
I did end up in most cases with that hospital going elsewhere, but sadly, the only other hospital in the city can be just as bad and has an average wait time of 12.2 hours. Now that I think back on that day, I believe it was that i went in because I had gotten bit by a rabid mouse repeatedly in my sleep. The shortest distance from here to St. Mary's Hospital here is approximately 10.5KM (6.5mi), and the other one on the other side of downtown comes in a 22.1KM (13.75mi). Here's the real shocking part… Because the health-care system in Waterloo Region is getting so out of hand, I willingly drive to Guelph (Wellington County), which is approximately 45km (28mi) out of my way to my specialist's office, and a whopping 98.5km (61.2mi) for any other kind of medical care for two reasons:
1) Our so called health-care "professionals" in Waterloo Region make it quite clear in Waterloo Region that they do not care about anything other than their pay cheque as they have demonstrated on several occasions, including the big wigs of such establishments. In my opinion, they are the health-care nonprofessionals by the way that they conduct business.
2) The vast majority of health-care "professionals" in Waterloo Region are both bigoted and obviously under-educated. I didn't so much instantly become a second class citizen and have the quality of the care suddenly drop for informing them that I'm gay because at least in Southern Ontario, being gay is something that the vast majority of people think nothing of. The biggest problem in Waterloo Region to my observation is that as soon as I inform the health-care "professionals" that I'm HIV+, I automatically become either some test experiment, or some second class citizen that they treat unfairly. To give you one such example, when I told the one doctor that I'm HIV+, he for no reason at all moved me to a private isolation unit and took additional precautions over and above the standard "universal precautions" that they're supposed to use with everyone. I'm not talking anything minor like a pair of gloves… Ohhhh no... I'm talking 3 pairs of latex gloves, a face shield, pretty much a fucking HAZMAT suit (similar to the ones they use in surgery), face mask, and a whole lot more. When I asked for the reason for this it was so that I (and I quote) "don't run the risk of continuing the spread of a serious communicable disease." It was at that time that I told the doctor where he could go and what he could do when he got there, as well as telling him that I thought by that point that we were through, and proceeded to head to Norfolk General Hospital in Simcoe, Ontario.
I could go on in great detail (actually I have a 156 page "diary" so to speak of all the horrors that I've had with health-care in Waterloo Region). It just goes to remind me why I'll take the drive to Simcoe, Ontario (Norfolk County) to Norfolk General Hospital, because I've never been there for longer than 4 hours (and the wait time where I live averages 12.2 hours waiting just to be seen by a doctor), and I have never had a problem with anything they've done. In fact, I often praise the staff at that hospital because there have been times where hospitals like Brantford General Hospital in Brantford, Ontario (Brant County) couldn't get things right after being given 5 chances, so I finally went elsewhere. Just an FYI… BGH (Brantford General Hospital) is actually worse than Kitchener. Their average wait time is 16.5 hours, and they've been rated Ontario's #1 WORST hospital by a number of review boards.
Again more reason for going to Norfolk General Hospital... I have only ever been put in isolation three times in all the times I've gone in there. The first time I didn't care because it was so that med students could come in and learn about various things (particularly surrounding HIV), and ask me intelligent questions out of honest curiosity that the text books just don't teach. The time I was put into isolation I asked about it because I didn't understand the reason for it. The answer I got was "We see on your file that you're HIV+, and there's a younger gentlemen in the same general area that you would have otherwise been in that we are trying to determine if he has the flu or H1N1. We just wanted to make sure that we kept you away from that, because with your HIV, you don't need something like that to compound the problem." This type of answer, I didn't mind because it provided me with a what I felt to be a solid justified reason for doing something like that. Then comes the third time. I couldn't understand why they were putting me in isolation, so I asked yet again on that visit. Again the answer that I got was at least satisfactory to me, because I could understand their point of view. When asked, they answered with, "Your chart says you're HIV+, which is a sensitive subject matter to begin with, and the doctor is likely going to have some rather sensitive questions regarding it. Given that your HIV status is nobody else's business and there is still a stigma around the whole subject in the general community, we wanted to make sure that we didn't potentially expose you to unwanted attention, out your status, or worse off, create an uncomfortable situation for you by speaking about such a sensitive subject matter where it could be overheard by anyone." Once I informed them that I appreciated the thought, but didn't think it was necessary because I can handle myself just fine, they have never put me in isolation since.
I also think what makes the whole health-care system a little worse off is that a lot of the better doctors weren't happy with the limits and budget restrictions that the government put into place, so the only people that really stick around on the most part are the young med students who don't know that they could make so much more money and deal with less crap if they went to a country like the USA where such things are privately billed. That being said though, I cannot knock the Canadian medical system overall for that, because there are still some people in the field (particularly in smaller towns) that do actually have a passion for the job still.... Not to mention the fact that I did things like spent almost 2 weeks in the hospital in Lethbridge, Alberta sick as a dog over the Maple Leaf Foods scare that went on a few years back, yet for the entire duration of my stay, I did not see so much as one bill. The whole subject never came up as soon as I handed them my health card. What made it even more interesting was that the health card at the time was registered to my old address in London, Ontario, yet from 3 provinces away in Alberta, they could still process it and not have me have to deal with the headache of the bill.
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hello.
just came across this topic and at first i shared your very thinly veiled frustration however on further consideration i came up with something i hope might help clarify the reason for the nurses apparent ignorance.Well when i say "came up with," i mean I've given it some thought and have the dubious honour of experiencing it from the other side.
I live in the uk and work in the national health services. In my role as a doctor i am expected to know about medicines and i am the first to admit that i do not know the name, either generic or trade, of all the medicines being used in the UK. I am certain that no doctor will be arrogant enough to claim that they can instantly recognise every medicine they are presented with.
Now coming to your situation, the nurses in the UK do not receive a great deal of training in Pharmacology, I'm not entirely certain of the Canadian nurses training system. The nurses tend to pick things up as they go along and do this, by and large, to a degree of proficiency that makes it appear that they are trained to a higher degree than they actually are.
Also they do not receive training in microbiology and may possibly not recognise the full form of HIV especially in the stressful A/E setting. What she did was ask you what the medication was for, something that is good clinical practice. She ensured she tried to find out what the medication was for in, what i assume was, an effort to provide better care. Unfortunately she lost your trust in her and that is never good.
With the financial constraints on all National Health Services leading to nurses having to assume greater and greater clinical responsibility one can only hope that they are given adequate training.
I am not trying to rally around the nurse as a professional courtesy but am merely endeavouring to offer you a possible explanation as to why you found yourself in the situation you did.
In any case i hope you are in good health and have had no further incidences like this.
Best Wishes
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I'm also consumer of the Canadian Medical System, Nova Scotia division, and have had lots of interactions especially over the last few years. My mother's stroke anniversary is in two days, and I was diagnosed with asthma at 6 months. I also have the joys of allergies, including foods. I've seen good, bad, terrible, and exceptional. I've experienced levels of frustration that I didn't think possible, but just when it gets to the point where you have to either scream or slap someone, you run in to an individual who is actually there to care for people, not just pay off the student loans or put in time wishing for early retirement.
I have three personal incidents that I really can't prioritize, so chronological order will do.
There are times when the medication I have for breathing just doesn't work. Panicking about it just intensifies the problem in a negative feedback loop, but over the years I've gotten to the point where I know that things are beyond what I have at home, which, thankfully, isn't that often. I was on aerosol therapy 4+ times a day and preparing my own before first grade, so I am familiar with the procedures involved, and just needed supplies.
One time, I left things much longer than I should have. I was getting the colour fading and vision narrowing effects from lack of oxygen when I arrived at the E.R. I likely shouldn't have been driving, but ambulance response times can counter any ambulance priority once you get there. I honestly don't know how briefly I was waiting in triage, but when I did get in, they skipped over things like the O2 saturation monitor, going directly for treatment. By the time they got the monitor, I was doing much better, and had come up to 64%. The people there that day recognized the problem and went for the fix, as requested.
The next time, I didn't wait as long, so I wasn't the poster boy for suffocation when I came in the door. I just kept getting worse over the next too many hours. When I finally got to the front of the line, I needed almost an hour of treatment, the treatment I had told them I would need when I came in the door, instead of the 5 minutes that would have stopped the incident in it's tracks if given within the first half hour of my arrival. The end result was that I was in for over twice as long as I had been for the previous incident!
My final incident was something I was not familiar with, broken bones. The four-hour wait seems to be typical, although I haven't looked for the official stats. I was left to my own devices to find a way to elevate the foot, to try and reduce the swelling and accompanying pain. They tried setting the bones, put on a cast, then took some X-rays to see if it was good enough. It wasn't. After two more times, they decided that pain management might be a good idea. By the time I was in for the fourth round, I almost made a pass at the X-ray tech. The breaks were about a third of the way up my foot, and while the bones ended up connected, the alignment was much less than optimal. My dreams of a career as a foot model are over.
I've found out that the ambulances can be quite cold places in winter, and if you have something like a comforter and need to transport from a place with a dryer, heat the comforter and send it with the patient. It is a small thing that can dramatically improve their comfort. There is no choice of where the ambulance goes. They have to go to the nearest facility, even if that facility doesn't have what's needed for treatment. Once you get in a facility, then you can be moved to a different one, until you (hopefully? eventually?) get to one that can do what is needed.
The stupidest thing that I haven't been able to get an answer for is why the health system violates some of their own policies. They have a "no scents is good sense" policy, yet the liquid soap they use in every washroom has a strong rose perfume scent. Perhaps I've been soured on roses, but I can't see why they have to have a scented product, when they ask all visitors and patients to refrain from using scented products before going to their facilities.
Finally, if you have to go from a doctor's office to an emergency room, having the doctor call ahead does seem to help reduce the time spent in the waiting room. You may have to wait just as long for treatment, but you don't get the other people coughing on you, or the presence of a television tuned to someone else's favourite program.
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My latest epic fail in Waterloo Region was the day I had to drive to Simcoe because I sliced my hand open quite good (good enough to require stitches) and was profusely bleeding all over the place in the ER waiting for just over 45 MINUTES before walking out of the ER figuring I'd rather die trying to make it to Simcoe than die waiting in the ER.
It actually sickens me that to this day, I never got a resolution from the hospital's administration team about that one.
